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About Moslem

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    Back to Regular! *dance*
  • Birthday 03/03/1964

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  1. ^yes. and defends it, too. No need for responses, people just want to (apparently it's the protest song of this particular gen, see here). See Chicity one here: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/hindtrospectives/2014/04/a-smile-is-charity-happy-muslims-all-that-jazz/ There is also a beautiful Gaza one.
  2. No MPAC won't be commenting, they're plannin on producing their own video featuring American Muslems so I have heard! Happy Chicago Muslims is out now, NY on its way, etc. I wonder if any of the ones produced by orgs will factor in the critiques from the British one (i.e. acapella tunes, less moving women, etc). Musa, have Jewish communities put together such a media publication/outlet?
  3. One of the critiques of the video I read were that the video supports RAPE CULTURE because Pharrell also featured in some song that did so (I seem to have entirely missed this). Grasping for anything here, it's kinda getting embarrassing. Also, the American response videos have begun. Chicago Muslims one is out, I hear NY is on its way as is one done by MPAC.
  4. Hmm, something just occurred to me. Aside from ADeen's blogpost, do you know of any where else that has presented a 'my way or da highway!' POV coming from the pro-video camp (explicitly thru blog, article, video)? Because I can think of at least half a dozen from the anti-video camp, but only Adam Deen really from the pro. But it is possible that I am missing something, would you know of more mayhaps? (Quillam and MNawaz dont count, I think everyone on both camps find em equally annoying)
  5. True. Luckily I can attest to many 'liberal Brits' and 'conservative Canadians' who don't fool around on forums when they have more pressing matters at hand
  6. Okay I think this is a very important point. The way we define terms. "Conservative" plays out differently in different contexts. I feel like I should expand on this point but it's 3am and i need to do my work!
  7. From what my Swiss Muslim friends tell me, that already seems to be the case! Hmm, I think you are going to have to define your terms for me to better answer your Q. What do you mean re: 'vital barometer' & 'certain practices'? Yes Muslims are aware there are different approaches but honestly, sincerely, I think it is a worthy project to showcase this publicly because of how maligned this approach is among so many British Muslim organizations, groups, communities. If people dont want to "dance to the tune of it" then that is entirely their right as long as no isle is imposing upon another (which I don't think is happening, both sides are generally being insufferable). Yeah I was thinking it's weird to use music & segregation as the case study points but I used those first in response to raymondo's own construction because I actually am a very lazy typer on MM nowadays. Anyway, you are now getting into a discussion of the video itself, do we want to do that? Because those things you raise are massive beasts which MM has spent manya pages already going thru. I think there is legit ikhtilaaf on dem things. Also, I should also say that I dont consider ANY single movement in the video to be dancing, ha. I think people are just moving to a beat, not dancing in any way which Badawi etc would find inapprops (the video got some props from teachers back home who maintain a 'music can be halal' stance ps).
  8. I think that is your own projection onto my post. Everything is possible only w God's will, innit In any case, I think it's always positive when more institutions and spaces are made for people. In all cases. If God wills for more anti-music and pro-segregation spaces to pop up in North America bc of the current communities' lack of serving this population, I think that is a good thing too. I think if Happy British Muslims teaches us anything, it's that we desperately need to learn the adab of ikhtilaaf -- the manners of disagreement! Less councils of imams on terrorism, on living in the west, and more on topics like this.
  9. Yeah I wouldn't say a majority, I said a largeĀ® chunk! Yes, but I think it has to do with the way those political tensions are harnessed, I don't think it is a result of them directly. Probably the most politically active North American Muslims I know are also the most 'progressive'. i.e. as they move more 'left' on the political spectrum, they also move more 'left' on the religious (if we are using crude spectrums). Brits are different maybe because of a more isolationist approach to dealing with the state? I have no idea, I am just postulating wildly here, I am not as familiar with how state politics intersect with religious here. I mean North American Muslims were very much affected by all the same internatioanl political things as British Muslims. And actually I also disagree with the characterization of the BritishHappyMuslims thing as an explicit attempt to pander or fit in - sooooooooo many of the people in that video are active in challenging state narratives and they joined in the vid to challenge Muslim ones too (i.e. to show diversity of Muslim practice to Muslims).
  10. I disagree with some constructions you have made here. Your generalization about being in agreement is a bit off, I think. My experiences so far have not been the same. I think the institutions generally reflect that attitude but in talking to many people, they are either frustrated or resigned with that. Of course there are people that agree with it, but there is a silent population who have no problem with music, have problems with segregation, etcetc. I actually think this is a significant population of people and as they get older, will insha Allah create the institutions to reflect this approach to Islam. Which is why I say the next gen of British Muslims may be like the one in N.America now if God so wills it. Also, I don't think that the more 'liberal' attitude towards religion in North America has much to do with one's feelings towards the state. I mean, I don't think this is a concious thing, where Muslims in N. America jam to music because it's the American/Canadian thing to do. Rather educational access and employment has simply meant more integration with mainstream institutions, more opportunities, more exposure, more diverse minglings, which inevitably results in a more 'open' interpretation of identity. In my experience, some of the most open-minded and hospitable Muslim immigrants are those from places where there is a substantial non-Muslim presence and a historical Muslim presence (i.e. West Indian Muslims, Bosniaks, Malaysians, even Indians maybe etc). Whereas immigrants from places with Muslim majorities (Arab world, South Asia etc) or with tense religious groups (India can fit here too etc) tend to be more insular.
  11. What I find a little bit more baffling, which I so far am struggling to understand is the differences of British VS North American Muslims coming from the same Islamic educational background (I think everyone from University of Medina starts out the same). In particular, I am thinking of one zawiya in the Middle East which a fair number of Westerners have traveled to join/learn from the shaykh. While they are there, the women are highly segregated and generally wear niqab and whatnot. His teachings fall on the more 'conservative' spectrum, definitely. He has murids all over the world and some of the ones in Canada have created really lovely spaces of spirituality and learning with equal female participation. Generally though, they are 'conservative' but not at ALLLLLLLLLLLLL to the level of his British murids who generally maintain the strict segregation of sexes. I don't get it at all -- I am not sure the class thing applies (or maybe it does? I have to explore this). I mean, their site of authority and learning is the same yet the results are quite different. Curious. PS there is a conference upcoming at Cambridge on the topic of Islam in Britain, with a panel on how different tariqas produce different levels of integration among British Muslims.
  12. There are also differences between Canadian and American Muslims. The Yanks are a lot more rarara we are American, hear us roar. Canadians are more chill about it, I think. But that applies to the entire population, Americans are known to be way more jingo. As to the class thing Musa, when you ask whether it's really a thing - I say it is. Even if lots of immigrant Muslims are working labour jobs, to immigrate they had to meet some kinda whacky points system which included an education and some capital. So likely they are at least middle class in their respective home countries and maybe didn't requalify in the country of immigration. There are exceptions of course - asylum seekers and refugees, which is why there is often heightened tension with these groups in North America (see Somali communities in some cities - tho we can't discount racism). And raymondo, you asked whether these phenomena extend to second/third generation and I say of course! I think the next generation of British Muslims will be where North American Muslims are now, maybe - not all, but a larger chunk. I think about my own parents who were in North America as totally non-practicing peeps other than the basic rituals. The masjid they attended for Jummah was led by a convert imam with a PhD. They learned their appreciation of Islam from this sort of community - much more inclusive and non-cultural and intellectual. Were they to have first attended a mosque that doesn't for example make reasonable spaces for women and have imams who don't know the language, our practice would have been much different.
  13. A biriyani thread was turned into a discussion about anthropology and an anthropology thread was turned into a discussion about biriyani. Masha Allah.
  14. Yes this has been exactly my experience. I have had many conversations about this and we almost always come back to settlement patterns. North American immigrant Muslims are almost all educated as they had to be 'highly skilled' to immigrate. In Britain, many people came as labourers. This is why you have discrepancies in school performance as well. (for example, I was surprised to hear that it is sometimes looked favourably that girls get married right out of high school here, where back home you are expected to moreorless have a post-secondary degree.) Not saying any one way is correct, but this obviously leads to different forms of engagement with larger society and the types of institutions that are formed. I personally think North American Muslims are generally more inclusive (and broadly communitarian) than Brits. Class plays a massive, massive role in this. There is a greater % of the population of middle-class (at least) North American immigrant Muslims then there are British middle-class (at least) Muslims. North American institutions are, on the general, also more robust as a result. I am not making any claims, this is just what I have seen and experienced. My experience with race has also been hugely different in Britain. I think that there are currents of change about, though, in all communities - they just occur at different paces due to different factors.
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