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AT the time of the prophet, it was ordered that they throw homosexuals off high cliffs. I really don't get this homosexual business....and don't tell me you're born with it...because if you're homosexual chances are there's a reason for it in your upbringing/setting/your parents/relatives being okay with it....whatever

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mrgreenhat I'm quite surprised with your take on this. As you can see there's a diverse range of opinions on the issue, each one rational. And all based on the same fundamental idea: homosexuality isn't merely a "behaviour", its a subversion of natural order. Its only that people today have been desensitized to its perverse nature with the mass secularist movement promoting "freedom", adopting a laissez faire attitude, trashing morality. 'Course, as you'll say, everyone defines morality differently. Depends entirely on your frame of reference. But its only in this cliched "modern western" environment that morality permits homosexuality. Religion, sanity, and most of all natural order dictate heterosexuality.

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Salam,

 

Freudian psychology is pretty much dead. A lot of Freud's ideas have been utterly rejected by science, but however still remain popular in the media and pulp fiction.

 

I think a lot of psychologists today would be geared towards evolutionary psych, apparently Darwin's the man.

 

Perhaps sexual perversion is the result of reinforcement or perhaps more ppl today are gays and whatnot b/c of society. Thanks to Baywatch and every other movement of scantily clad women, nothing is taboo n e more. I mean ppl want what they can't have right? So if you see women displaying their assets constantly and leaving nothing to the imagination perhaps this causes some men who are genetically predisposed to this ( NOTE: I didn't not say they have genetically programmed to this by God. You can be more genetically disposed to getting skin cancer and that does not mean you are wired for skin cancer) acting gay or having homosexual feelings. I don’t know just a thought.

 

I'm thinking it could also possibly be reinforcements from society. Maybe Lisa sees Mary today and thinks oh Mary looks really pretty today. Society tells Lisa, that she is having homosexual thoughts and that she is a lesbian. This leads to a self-fulfilling prophecy and Lisa convinces herself that she is indeed gay.

 

 

I think its a lot of factors that play into homosexuality and its causes, however, this is not a recent phenomena and has existed for a pretty long time considering that it was around in Lut's time.

 

 

As far as ppl who do have homosexual thoughts, I read that a really good form of therapy is electroshock therapy. Its been used on perverts who get aroused by thinking of children and eventually through negative reinforcement loose this ill behavior. I'm sure that a lot of these gay ppl hate themselves b/c of the illness they have, but what we as a ppl need to start realizing is it is a form of sickness and it must be treated just like we would treat someone with schitzo and not say they are possessed by the devil burn them at the stake.

 

Just my two pennies

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It would suck to have gay/lesbian parents.

Everyone would make fun of you at school especially if they had those mother daughter things.....and you would have 2 moms come in.

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im for same sex if both women are hot.

 

 

i lied. its haram.

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its disgustin...theres a girl in my class who a lesbian...but i thinks shes just confused and tryin to get attention...

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I'm all for gay adoption. The only drawback to gay adoption for the kids is society's reaction. That's not the fault of gay people. And if heterosexuals can have homosexual children, then isn't it possible for gay people to raise straight children? I know that having 2 moms/dads will reinforce ideas regarding homosexual relationships in your mind, but you usually start your romantic endeavors at school, where heterosexuality is the norm.

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as long as they dont make out in front of me, i mean, its their prerogative and only Allah can judge.

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its disgustin...theres a girl in my class who a lesbian...but i thinks shes just confused and tryin to get attention...

I've got two bisexual friends...and at my school, we had quite a few homosexuals. It didnt really bother me, i didnt feel disgusted either (well, i was quite used to sitting next to them in lessons etc)

i dont agree with homosexuality, its not normal...I dont believe someone can be religious and a homosexual. Then i'd completely disagree with it, but if they dont follow a religion, and are a homosexual, then i dont care. It's a choice they've made.

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mrgreenhat I'm quite surprised with your take on this. As you can see there's a diverse range of opinions on the issue, each one rational. And all based on the same fundamental idea: homosexuality isn't merely a "behaviour", its a subversion of natural order. Its only that people today have been desensitized to its perverse nature with the mass secularist movement promoting "freedom", adopting a laissez faire attitude, trashing morality. 'Course, as you'll say, everyone defines morality differently. Depends entirely on your frame of reference. But its only in this cliched "modern western" environment that morality permits homosexuality. Religion, sanity, and most of all natural order dictate heterosexuality.

Hardly. Many societies have accepted homosexuality. The fact that it is a perennial problem (for societies that think its disguisting) and hasn't gone away despite probably the most horrible treatment (gays were rounded up at the same time if not before the Jews in Nazi Germany, cali girl says throw them off the cliff like in the time of Mohammad, etc) suggests to me that its not unnatural. The fact that numerous other animals, including mammals and apes very close to human beings have homosexual populations or bisexual tendencies just indicates to me that this whole argument that it is unnatural is just plain questionable. Given that animals, supposedly without human "reason" (for religious opinions) develop this behaviour, it does indicate to me that there is a natural programing, or natural socialisation which produces homosexuality.

 

Therapy has proven to destroy people. It is as bad as teaching a boy that he is in fact a girl for his whole life (especially in a society with strict behaviour patterns for each sex). It is hardly a "humane" solution. They are human beings, if you haven't noticed. People will treat them like animals because of a life style choice that does no harm to anyone else?

 

And just to point out two societies which had homosexuals: Greece and Japan. Aristotle wrote that the only true love is between two men of equal stature and virtue. The Sacred Band was a battallion of 300 homosexuals revered for their ferosity on the battle field.

 

I don't know how you could be surprised by my position on this. My conception of human rights is not limited by differences.

 

I apologize, as I lied I did actually respond. But since no one actually addressed the questions, Ill ask them again. I don't think people understand the implications of the justifications they are generating. And I know when other people take the conclusions individuals are now taking but against Islam (with very similar type of arguments) there is outrage, fear, and other negative reactions. Why cannot people empathize with the effects their reaction is having upon other human beings? If you believe they are going to go to hell, is that not torment enough? They know you think they are going to hell (how couldn't they?), they know your warnings and have decided like 5 billion others to choose a different path, do you now go and insult and attack those 5 billion too? Individuals feel safe picking on a weak and vulnerable minority - and it really does not seem rational because homosexuals have absolutely no interest in causing anyone harm, they just want to live their own lives. Do Muslims not want to practice their own religion? It is the same thing, if one could for a second imagine themselves in another position. If one is unable or unwilling to do that, then I don't see how in the next breath they can complain about someone discriminating them and hope for it to end.

 

Again:

 

are you allowed to condemn other people socially based upon religious principles they absolutely reject? I know you are aware of the context, but try to even remove the thought of homosexuality out - how do people function in multi ethnic and faith communities? Is that an important quality? If people view Islamiphobia as a bad quality, do they think the concepts are identical to the way certain individuals will condemn those who don't share their religious opinions? Finally what is the justification to hate, abuse, condemn, and carry a general negative additude to an individual of different faith and behaviours? I would be careful as to how one answers this - if we are to believe in reciprocal behaviour: Do unto others as you would like them to do unto you, or don't do to others what you would not want them to do to you...

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I really want to learn more about teh concept of fitrah in islam. Its pretty clear to be that homosexuality is not natural, if nothing else, becuase they cannot produce children. I'm not for gay adoption because I think that its unnatural for kids to not grow up with their biological parents and I think a while from now, when these kids have grown up, right wing groups will do studies on this stuff and probably find that those kids have some sort of issues. i really do beleive that, because its just not natural.

 

I think homosexuality is a sexual perversion like pedaphilia and incest. some people do have that, but they have to control it, according to islam.

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