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Satyamev Jayate - Victory In Truth show

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Where is the society that gives women respect? Where is the society that gives children their rights? There isn't one is there.

As far as Islam and Muslim communities are concerned the respect and status given to women by Allah tala is sadly only confined to text books and the Qur'an, i'm sure you get the odd people who do practice is, but as a whole when we look at our communities we don't see it.

 

No one gives children their rights, here in UK - you might get free education, free health, but who's protecting them? 'Children' are given contraceptives in school, free chlamydia tests, doctors can give them contraceptive pills without their parents permission it's all about "hey do what you want! You're 13? you can go and have sex with your boyfriend? hey you're 10 years old! You should be taught about sex, relationships, and alcohol" they think they are giving kids their rights, but is this really the case? Sex education is promoted so they can enjoy themselves - if it really was about protecting them, they would have sex education to teach children what is abuse, what isn't, to teach them some sort of boundaries, to teach them to respect their boundaries, to teach them to have some self esteem, so every other 12 year old isn't having sex just to look good in front of her mates.

 

The whole system is messed up, everything promotes becoming a slave to your nafs. Nothing teaches you to have self-control, nothing teaches you to have some sort of morals, we live in a age where religion and any sort of restriction/indoctrination is seen as clear cut oppression. When this is the way of life - are we seriously surprised that society is as sexually perverse as it is today?

 

I don't think children are any safer from sexual abuse in this country than they are in India, they only thing is that alhumdulilah at least the kids have someone they can turn to (helplines or whatever), but still we're looking at 'cures' and not the methods to prevent it. I'm not saying it's possible to change the whole wide world overnight, but at least begin by acknowledging the reasons for the problems, and to give blame where it's due - and to protect yourself and your family from it as a start, and then others.

 

That sentence right there sums up the entire world and also the problems within India. People are thinking about themselves rather than others and about how they feel in this life rather than the life of the hereafter.

 

As for teaching children about boundaries, etc, this is where parents need to step up. To expect the school to teach the kids everything is washing your hands of your responsibility. In Islam, the proper upbringing of children is the duty of every parent. However, many parents both in the west and east are fine with their children dating. The western idea of teaching kids it's okay to have sex with the person you love makes no sense to me. How do you expect a 13 - 16 yr old to know if what they are feeling is love and not the pressure of doing it or just hormones? I like how there are groups associated with the church which promote chastity. Alhumdulillah there are parents who openly discuss these things with their kids. Desi societies however rather not talk about it because it's too shameful. It's better to turn a blind eye to it than admit it could happen to your child. So when kids watch movies which promote dating and sex, they think it's perfectly fine because their parents didn't say otherwise. So again, it's more the fault of the parents for not saying anything until it was too late than movies which have no other storyline to work with besides "love".

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Tell me where I did that.

 

but since we're talking about the Indian society here (since he's raising awareness about problems in India) it's only fair to look at the root of the problem and see why its all going down the drain.

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Guest Fufu Xiawoun

^ I was talking about looking at the root of the problem and seeing why the society is going down the drain in general terms, not because of one person commit suicide. This topic spoke about two different topics that this program is trying to raise awareness against a-) female infanticide b-) sexual abuse. I was talking about looking at the root of the problem and looking at the evil that facilitates these evil practices, and I genuinely believe that sexually exploiting women (and men) to the degree that this industry does as well as the other industries, it definitely has a huge role to play when we look at how sexually perverse and morally bankrupt the people are today, which leads them to doing the same practices that this show then condemns.

 

If you disagree, then that's fine. I don't need to prove you wrong, I merely stated my opinion. I will address all the points you made in response to my post after I clarify that I do not blame Bollywood for the suicide one woman, but I do think entertainment industries are to blame for society becoming increasingly sexually perverse and having low self esteem because they cannot achieve the same ideals that society holds at such high regard (which again are promoted by entertainment industries).

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^ I was talking about looking at the root of the problem and seeing why the society is going down the drain in general terms, not because of one person commit suicide. This topic spoke about two different topics that this program is trying to raise awareness against a-) female infanticide b-) sexual abuse. I was talking about looking at the root of the problem and looking at the evil that facilitates these evil practices, and I genuinely believe that sexually exploiting women (and men) to the degree that this industry does as well as the other industries, it definitely has a huge role to play when we look at how sexually perverse and morally bankrupt the people are today, which leads them to doing the same practices that this show then condemns.

 

If you disagree, then that's fine. I don't need to prove you wrong, I merely stated my opinion. I will address all the points you made in response to my post after I clarify that I do not blame Bollywood for the suicide one woman, but I do think entertainment industries are to blame for society becoming increasingly sexually perverse and having low self esteem because they cannot achieve the same ideals that society holds at such high regard (which again are promoted by entertainment industries).

Since you started off discussing suicide in that post and continued to say that movies are the root of the problem in India, it certainly seemed that you were saying bollywood is eventually to blame for suicide. I'm not trying to prove you wrong and I certainly don't mean to be harsh but I don't understand why everyone associates India's problems with Bollywood. Bollywood going away with not solve India's problems. All I'm trying to tell you and others is that these problems have been a part of India for centuries and the Hindi film industry has been around since the 1930s?

 

And it doesn't make sense to blame movies when the telephone, the internet, emails, facebook, blogging websites, messenger services, newspapers, television, news channels have equal amounts of evils associated with it. Just like people choose to watch a movie, they choose to talk to boyfriends over their mobiles, attach pictures and love letters via email clients, chat via msn, add each other over facebook and even spy over each other. They hear of crimes, evils in the society via tv, news and papers and get ideas or even feel better about it because they know others do it too. Have you ever read the mirror's health and advice column? I was scarred at 11 in London. No wait. I was actually scarred by the TV advert I saw at 11am or 12pm in London. Day time television folks. Even books! In high school (9th?), kids in my class were sharing American? books filled with love stories and sexual content. There are a million porn websites on the internet. Oh, even child porn for those who are into that. And we already know that's a problem in India but bollywood movies haven't showed child porn as yet so where did that come to India? The filth is/was already inside people. This is the bottom line of my argument. People need to have self restraint and for those that don't, they need to be severely punished when they transgress the rights of others.

 

As for low self esteem, again that's a lot to do with upbringing not movies. What parents teach their kids and how they help them deal with problems in their childhood and how they personally deal with problems affects a child's self esteem. If you (parents) keep telling a child they are worthless all their life and they grow up seeking someone to tell them they are in fact good enough, is it really that shocking? What movies do is tell people, "oh your mother/father didn't love you? You know who will make it all better? A wife/husband/boyfriend/girlfriend/falling in love because it's the best and will last forevernevernevernever." But did they create the low self esteem? Nope. It was already there.

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FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

Oi. Muslims should resolve differences not fuel them. :no:

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Guest Fufu Xiawoun

Since you mentioned love, who doesn't want to be loved? It's not about only women wanting to be loved by men. Men want to be loved by women as well. And both guys and girls commit suicide because they don't get the person or are abused - psychologically, emotionally, verbally or physically, by the people they expected love from. Yes, sometimes people commit suicide for the most silliest reasons but that's more of a personality issue than a Bollywood issue. Many people do it purely for attention. But to say all the people who commit suicide is for silly reasons and/or because they are more culturally prone to suicide is to trivialise the problem. This is why these issues are never tackled in the first place. I think you need to watch the episode before suggesting movies are somehow responsible.

 

1) Yes everyone needs to be loved, but an industry which promotes putting love before yourself/your religion is at fault, because when the people can't get this they feel like failures.

 

2) I never said all people who commit suicide do it for silly reasons - that would be a stupid thing to say, so I'm glad I didn't say that.

 

3) Just out of interest, how many teenagers commit suicide because of their relationships in India compared to England? Why do people commit suicide? What brings them to this breaking point? Which part of our culture worsens their insecurities? If England is having an economic crisis, and people commit suicide because of their financial problems, will some of the fault not like with the banks that ruined our economy to the point where your average man is struggling to survive on his income? - Don't get into answering all of these questions, the point i'm trying to make is that when there's a problem you have to try and look at the different reasons why it happens, not anomalies, but as a whole.

 

 

Oh and since you are going on about films, reality is often worse than fiction. Movies are often based ON reality. India's population didn't explode because of movies. People already knew how to have sex before hindi movies started dipicting sexual content. All movies did is made it obvious that people have sex outside of marriage. And this is more the case in perhaps the last 2 decades. People were already doing it long before movies. If it wasn't already happening in society, people would watch a movie and wonder what the hell is being depicted. Also, there was an initiative in India where if TVs are made available in homes, people will spend more time watching TV than having sex and hence have less kids. Not a joke btw. Actually studied this in school.

 

I know that people had sex outside of marriages before movies and TV came along, but the point is that promoting such practices and normalizing them on screen does in fact encourage them off screen, there is definitely a correlation between such practicses becoming normalized on television and people becoming desensitized to the major sins (both in Hinduism, and Islam).

 

Movies don't corrupt people. People are already corrupt because they are evil, shallow, greedy, filthy-minded, etc. Movies just depict what has already become a norm in our societies. So if people are raping women as a revenge, this isn't because Bollywood showed people how to. People were raping women long before it came up in a story line of a movie. To think otherwise is to be fooling yourself and giving movies a little more credit than they deserve. Anyway, Bollywood isn't always aiming to be the cure. It's an entertainment industry and if it adds to the problem that's fine as long as it's making them money. If you go to see the actual movies which attempt to at least bring to light the evils within the society, you'll realize how much resistance they are met with. You need money and influence to make it happen and most times the producers end up losing money instead of making any so why would Bollywood movies change? Societies need to change first.

 

 

People become evil when you take them away from a code of moral conduct and allow them to become desensitized to immorality, all of which entertainment industries promote. If you don't agree, then that's fine. I'm not going to argue over it.

 

People were raping before bollywood came through, the point is about the culture - the male hierarchy in India and Pakistan and the degradation of women, which again Bollywood does not help with, the same industry that has both nations crazed. If you look at that filth for long enough, it doesn't take long till you end up adopting their morals and their practices, look at what's happening to Pakistani television, they try and be more like Bollywood and you have Pakistani actresses coming on screen and effectively saying that Zina is 'pure and beautiful'. If you don't think that movies that promote zina have some blame in our communities becoming desensitized to the filthy sin, and that looking at barely dressed women does not facilitate corruption - then I can't do anything to make you see my point. If this doesn't corrupt a person, then why is it considered fahisha? Why has Allah tala told us to stay away from it? I genuinely believe that looking at sinful practices desensitize you from it, weakens and then deadens your heart to the point that people become animals and all they crave is to fulfill their sexual needs by preying on anything and anyone that comes their way. Obviously I'm not suggesting that you watch 10 movies and you're going to become a pedophile, and of course pedophilia existed long before movies became so widespread, but the point still remains, the sin and the filth that these industries promote have an effect on our hearts and minds that cause us to deviate from the right path - many of us just listen to music and fornicate, whilst some go further.

 

 

You mentioned how people elevate love above religion. In that case you need to look at their religion. However, most people even among Muslims are Muslims by name. They don't know half as much about what their religion says and that probably includes me as well. But many don't care to find out. They do what they like and don't worry about their religion until they get older. Today's society is a selfish one. It's all about getting what you want now and it's a rat race to get to the top even if it means crushing others in the process. Depression is actually linked to a person's wealth and status. The more you have of it, the more likely you are to be depressed and thus more likely for you to commit suicide. Which is why you see so many famous American actors, actresses, etc killing themselves or overdosing on drugs.

 

Sorry, I actually don't get your point. I said that people elevate love above their religion because this is what is considered more important, in India Bollywood does promote this notion. I do think that it is detrimental to ones life when your understanding of your existence and the purpose of your life is so far from the truth. And you're right putting your material wealth above everything else will lead to depression too, again it's everything that society promotes which is away God that leads you to this. I'm not trying to trivalise the issue, i'm trying to highlight a reason behind the downfall of the human nation - distancing yourself from God.

 

Nearly half of the Indians can't even afford a decent meal (~37% live below the poverty line), let alone time to go watch a Bollywood movie. They didn't need a movie to teach them that money will help ease their worries. They didn't need a movie to teach them that a son means a money making device whereas a girl means a burden. They don't need movies to teach them to rape children and women. And they certainly don't need to watch a movie to torture their daughter-in-law/spouse. They've been living with these evils for centuries. It's all around us, all over the world no matter where you go. This show has been the biggest platform for addressing these problems. But if people still want to put blinders on and blame it all on movies, then I hope that gives them peace. Because it does nothing for those who are actually suffering.

 

And please watch the episode before saying, it must be because of Bollywood that the lady killed herself.

 

What will get rid of these evil practices? Islam.

Who is at war with Islam and drives people to sin? Shaitan

How does shaitan entice you to sin? music, zina, alcohol

What does every entertainment industry now promote? all of it.

 

I know it's going to sound really patronizing for me to break everything down to this, but the bottom line is disobedience of Allah tala, and distancing yourself from La ilaha ilalla is the root of all evil, and as a result of this you have the problems today. And regardless of what anyone says, no matter what it is - if something promotes sin, if something promotes evil, it carries part of the blame.

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Guest Fufu Xiawoun

Since you started off discussing suicide in that post and continued to say that movies are the root of the problem in India, it certainly seemed that you were saying bollywood is eventually to blame for suicide. I'm not trying to prove you wrong and I certainly don't mean to be harsh but I don't understand why everyone associates India's problems with Bollywood. Bollywood going away with not solve India's problems. All I'm trying to tell you and others is that these problems have been a part of India for centuries and the Hindi film industry has been around since the 1930s?

 

Yeah, these problems have been a part of this world for as long as the world has existed. Because when a person deviates from the truth, is enticed by Shaitan, he falls. Different centuries bring different trials, different mediums of corruption - in essence it's all the same.

 

And it doesn't make sense to blame movies when the telephone, the internet, emails, facebook, blogging websites, messenger services, newspapers, television, news channels have equal amounts of evils associated with it. Just like people choose to watch a movie, they choose to talk to boyfriends over their mobiles, attach pictures and love letters via email clients, chat via msn, add each other over facebook and even spy over each other. They hear of crimes, evils in the society via tv, news and papers and get ideas or even feel better about it because they know others do it too. Have you ever read the mirror's health and advice column? I was scarred at 11 in London. No wait. I was actually scarred by the TV advert I saw at 11am or 12pm in London. Day time television folks. Even books! In high school (9th?), kids in my class were sharing American? books filled with love stories and sexual content. There are a million porn websites on the internet. Oh, even child porn for those who are into that. And we already know that's a problem in India but bollywood movies haven't showed child porn as yet so where did that come to India? The filth is/was already inside people. This is the bottom line of my argument. People need to have self restraint and for those that don't, they need to be severely punished when they transgress the rights of others.

 

1) Yes, okay television yes i'll agree with you. But telephones and emails are not the same as a whole entertainment industry.

 

2) I don't think that people are born with filth inside them, I think people are a product of their society.

 

3) As for your point about their being no child porn in India but still there's children being sexually abused? I explained in my earlier points that promiscuity encourages people to become more sexually perverse, and it's one of the reasons people are so messed up. I won't say that every single pedophile is the way he or she is because they they saw too many naked ladies on telly, but on a whole oversexualisation of our societies definitely has some blame.

 

4) The fact that people need to have self restraint, and the transgressors be punished is one of the ahkam of Allah subhana tala, another one is to stay well away and discourage, and speak out against the fahisha that promotes disobedience, that makes our heart so dead that we forget our Lord, we forget our akhirah and become vile monsters. It's all part of the same package. There's a reason why this stuff is forbidden because of the filth it promotes and the damage it does to our hearts and minds.

 

As for low self esteem, again that's a lot to do with upbringing not movies. What parents teach their kids and how they help them deal with problems in their childhood and how they personally deal with problems affects a child's self esteem. If you (parents) keep telling a child they are worthless all their life and they grow up seeking someone to tell them they are in fact good enough, is it really that shocking? What movies do is tell people, "oh your mother/father didn't love you? You know who will make it all better? A wife/husband/boyfriend/girlfriend/falling in love because it's the best and will last forevernevernevernever." But did they create the low self esteem? Nope. It was already there.

 

So the solution to the example you've presented ideally would be to push the person towards Allah tala, encourage them that they do have a purpose for their existence and their worth is in the eyes of Allah tala, they have a place in Firdaus if they are to live this life in the right way - now that's the solution. But instead just like you said the movie tell them to get a boyfriend - so using your example, has the movie facilitated sin? Has the movie influenced culture and influenced society and worsened their insecurities - ie.. 'mummy daddy didn't love me, if I don't find a guy i'm worth nothing' - don't the ideas that movies promote make the situation worse? That was my point all along.

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It's pretty naive to think Bollywood or the media doesn't have a big influence on society. Shows like this are an example of that. What made so many people donate money to foeticide charities after a programme on TV was shown about foeticide?

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@ Fufu - Okay, I don't want to go over every point individually because I agree with may be 80 - 90% of what you've said. Movies promote promiscuity, perversion (I can see what you mean about child porn and I suppose it's possible) and sin. Agreed. This is sadly the worst thing about Hindi movies in today's day and age. However there are some positive movies as well.

 

Just the things I want to highlight from what I've been trying to say:

1. Not all Indians watch Bollywood movies. Most of South Indian states don't even understand Hindi let alone watch Hindi movies. Since I have no idea what their movies are like, I can't comment.

2. I don't agree that bollywood is the root cause of most of the problems in India. I agree that it facilitates certain problems. But in the end, the problems are deeply embedded within the mindset of people. And unless it is directly addressed, it's never going to go away.

3. If a Muslim Pakistani or India was saying zina is beautiful, I'd say they aren't doing it because of the movie industry. The movies are an excuse to follow their nafs. Those who want to stay away from sin will and those who don't wont. And often people sinning will say, well, so and so does it, so what's the big deal if I do it too?

 

I think that's about it. :)

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It's pretty naive to think Bollywood or the media doesn't have a big influence on society. Shows like this are an example of that. What made so many people donate money to foeticide charities after a programme on TV was shown about foeticide?

It's naive and ignorant even to suggest that ONLY Bollywood is the influencial factor.

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Guest Fufu Xiawoun

@ Fufu - Okay, I don't want to go over every point individually because I agree with may be 80 - 90% of what you've said. Movies promote promiscuity, perversion (I can see what you mean about child porn and I suppose it's possible) and sin. Agreed. This is sadly the worst thing about Hindi movies in today's day and age. However there are some positive movies as well.

 

Just the things I want to highlight from what I've been trying to say:

1. Not all Indians watch Bollywood movies. Most of South Indian states don't even understand Hindi let alone watch Hindi movies. Since I have no idea what their movies are like, I can't comment.

2. I don't agree that bollywood is the root cause of most of the problems in India. I agree that it facilitates certain problems. But in the end, the problems are deeply embedded within the mindset of people. And unless it is directly addressed, it's never going to go away.

3. If a Muslim Pakistani or India was saying zina is beautiful, I'd say they aren't doing it because of the movie industry. The movies are an excuse to follow their nafs. Those who want to stay away from sin will and those who don't wont. And often people sinning will say, well, so and so does it, so what's the big deal if I do it too?

 

I think that's about it. :)

 

Okay I understand, can you please try and explain what could be the other reasons that cause it then? This is a very genuine question, I hope it doesn't sound insincere, because I don't understand how people can do that. Yknow when you hear about how many figures of religious authority abuse kids, especially in masjids - there was a show on recently about that too, it makes me think "what the hell! Reminders of Allah tala were all around you- do you even believe that Allah tala exists that you go and commit sucha filthy crimes and nothing stops you" that's one thing I won't understand. What do you think it is? How do you think you can solve it?

 

I don't believe for a second that people are unaware of this problem, because according to the stats you had in your original post, around 50% of the kids are abused (in India) here in England I read the stats from a book as 3 in 7 girls 4 in 7 boys, or the other way around, are sexually abused at least once in their lifetimes, how the hell can people be so unaware of this problem when it is so prevalent in all of our societies?

 

Are you (not you whiterose) seriously telling me that the rest of 50% of India and the rest of the 4/7 girls and 3/7 girls are deaf, dumb and blind and are completely oblivious to the problem? What the best that people can do - make a few helplines for support, fine that'll help, but will it it 'solve' the problem? I seriously doubt that in places like Pakistan and India people are going to take claims to the police, maybe one or two, but your average poor person whose whole life revolves around their family honour, they won't. So will this ever end?

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Okay I understand, can you please try and explain what could be the other reasons that cause it then? This is a very genuine question, I hope it doesn't sound insincere, because I don't understand how people can do that. Yknow when you hear about how many figures of religious authority abuse kids, especially in masjids - there was a show on recently about that too, it makes me think "what the hell! Reminders of Allah tala were all around you- do you even believe that Allah tala exists that you go and commit sucha filthy crimes and nothing stops you" that's one thing I won't understand. What do you think it is? How do you think you can solve it?

 

I don't believe for a second that people are unaware of this problem, because according to the stats you had in your original post, around 50% of the kids are abused (in India) here in England I read the stats from a book as 3 in 7 girls 4 in 7 boys, or the other way around, are sexually abused at least once in their lifetimes, how the hell can people be so unaware of this problem when it is so prevalent in all of our societies?

 

Are you (not you whiterose) seriously telling me that the rest of 50% of India and the rest of the 4/7 girls and 3/7 girls are deaf, dumb and blind and are completely oblivious to the problem? What the best that people can do - make a few helplines for support, fine that'll help, but will it it 'solve' the problem? I seriously doubt that in places like Pakistan and India people are going to take claims to the police, maybe one or two, but your average poor person whose whole life revolves around their family honour, they won't. So will this ever end?

I'll be honest, before I heard about child abuse, I honestly didn't think about it or think it's something that happens. And I mean as a child, it's not something that kids around me spoke about so it wasn't something that would cross my mind or worry me. So is it possible to be oblivious about the evils in your society? I think it is. But then I've lived in a semi-protected society so that could be the reason for me not knowing about it. Today's kids are exposed to a lot more via the internet so it's more likely that they'd be more aware. Plus, depending on the society they are brought up in, if people talk about it, if they hear about it on TV, in movies or read about it in the news, they are more likely to know this happens.

 

Just to clarify, you are looking for reasons of what? Promiscuity? That's everywhere now isn't it? The world isn't limited to your school, your work, your home. You can connect with anyone and everyone. In school/uni, promiscuity is linked to popularity. If you have a bf or gf, you're more likely to be accepted. Parents consider it normal or they don't prevent their kids or teach them otherwise. If you are a Muslim but your parents never discuss Islam or if they themselves talk about how they had girlfriends or boyfriends (less likely) then you are indirectly telling your kids that this is acceptable behaviour. It's a little late to teach them once they're already involved with someone because hormones and feelings take over. The reason Islam tells us to marry earlier if we can or fast if we can't is because by a certain age, it's natural to have feelings for the opposite gender and be attracted to them. But since it's more important for parents to finish college and get a job before they can get married, it's natural people will fall into temporary relationships.

 

As for if you were asking me where perversion/sin comes from, that's shaitaan isn't it? He knows our weaknesses. For some it's money, for others it's power, or it's control and then for some it's the inability to control their urges. People who are weak, give in to these whisperings easily. And shaitaan doesn't stop until you've completely fallen into the pit. The further you are from God, the more easy it becomes to keep going.

 

Can we eliminate all these evils? No. Only Allah (swt) will put a end to it on the day of judgement. But we can control it by starting with improving ourselves first then advising our friends, our families, our community, etc. Improving laws to protect the innocent and use punishment as an effective deterrent. One of the main reasons criminals thrive in India is because they are never taken to trial or only tried by the time they are already on their death bed (not unusual) or years after they have harmed a lot more people. Or corruption is so wide spread that you can easily buy your freedom or someone else's silence. If you ever consider seeing a movie, you might want to watch, "No One Killed Jessica" or read about it here. It's about how the justice system nearly failed a waitress/model who was murdered (based on a real case). So until these basic deficiencies are eliminated from the justice system, people will never change. And even then the only thing punishment can do is reduce it. But that's good enough.

 

I hope the next thing Aamir addresses is rape especially in New Delhi. A lot of people are talking about gang rapes going on in the capital but there's nothing being done by the government.

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Guest Fufu Xiawoun

I'll be honest, before I heard about child abuse, I honestly didn't think about it or think it's something that happens. And I mean as a child, it's not something that kids around me spoke about so it wasn't something that would cross my mind or worry me. So is it possible to be oblivious about the evils in your society? I think it is. But then I've lived in a semi-protected society so that could be the reason for me not knowing about it. Today's kids are exposed to a lot more via the internet so it's more likely that they'd be more aware. Plus, depending on the society they are brought up in, if people talk about it, if they hear about it on TV, in movies or read about it in the news, they are more likely to know this happens.

 

Hmm fair enough.

 

Just to clarify, you are looking for reasons of what? Promiscuity? That's everywhere now isn't it? The world isn't limited to your school, your work, your home. You can connect with anyone and everyone. In school/uni, promiscuity is linked to popularity. If you have a bf or gf, you're more likely to be accepted. Parents consider it normal or they don't prevent their kids or teach them otherwise. If you are a Muslim but your parents never discuss Islam or if they themselves talk about how they had girlfriends or boyfriends (less likely) then you are indirectly telling your kids that this is acceptable behaviour. It's a little late to teach them once they're already involved with someone because hormones and feelings take over. The reason Islam tells us to marry earlier if we can or fast if we can't is because by a certain age, it's natural to have feelings for the opposite gender and be attracted to them. But since it's more important for parents to finish college and get a job before they can get married, it's natural people will fall into temporary relationships.

 

Right, I agree with the points you've made in this one but I was talking about the perversion - sorry I wasn't clear, but you mentioned it next anyway:

 

As for if you were asking me where perversion/sin comes from, that's shaitaan isn't it? He knows our weaknesses. For some it's money, for others it's power, or it's control and then for some it's the inability to control their urges. People who are weak, give in to these whisperings easily. And shaitaan doesn't stop until you've completely fallen into the pit. The further you are from God, the more easy it becomes to keep going.

Hmm, that does make sense, but the picture is so dark, the extent that people go to, there's nothing people can't top.

 

Can we eliminate all these evils? No. Only Allah (swt) will put a end to it on the day of judgement. But we can control it by starting with improving ourselves first then advising our friends, our families, our community, etc. Improving laws to protect the innocent and use punishment as an effective deterrant. One of the main reasons criminals thrive in India is because they are never taken to trial or only tried by the time they are already on their death bed (not unusual). Or corruption is so wide spread that you can easily buy your freedom or someone else's silence. If you ever consider seeing a movie, you might want to watch, "No One Killed Jessica" or read about it here. It's about how the justice system nearly failed a waitress/model who was murdered (based on a real case). So until these basic deficiencies are eliminated from the justice system, people will never change. And even then the only thing punishment can do is reduce it. But that's good enough.

 

Agreed. Ahh so that's one reason then, a messed up legal system, I remember reading something a few years back about how a first time offender got 3 and a half years? for rape, can you believe it, you get more for carrying a knife alone.

 

I hope the next thing Aamir addresses is rape especially in New Delhi. A lot of people are talking about gang rapes going on in the capital but there's nothing being done by the government.

 

I've heard about that, but is it one gang, or a few gangs or a mad rampage?

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Regarding the last part:

 

New Delhi: There is no proposal to set up special courts for trial of rape cases, but states are being impressed upon to probe such crimes more efficiently by deputing best officers, Home Minister P Chidambaram said today.

“At present, there is no proposal under consideration,” he said in the Rajya Sabha during Question Hour when asked if the government proposes to set up special courts to ensure speedy trials and expeditious relief and rehabilitation of rape victims and victims of injuries like burns and acid attacks.

To a query on declining rate of conviction in rape cases, he said it depends on nature of evidence and efficiency of prosecution besides other factors.

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/no-proposal-for-spl-courts-for-rape-cases-says-chidambaram-303770.html

 

Another article:

few days go by without newspaper headlines announcing a violent sexual assault on a woman who could have been us or a loved one. This is less well known: the victims we read about are less likely to get anything resembling justice than ever before. Since 1973, ever more women have summoned the courage to walk into a police station, growing from 2,919 that year to 20,262 in 2010. In the same period, conviction rates dropped from 37 per cent to 26 per cent. Police attitudes are a key part of the problem. In a recent exposé, Tehelka magazine covertly videotaped several mid-level Delhi Police officers endorsing the view that rape victims had somehow contributed to the assault they suffered by what they wore, or the way they behaved. Earlier, the Director General of Police in Andhra Pradesh said that “provocative fashionable dresses” could be “one of the factors” behind the increase in rape. With the police espousing such ridiculous views, it is hardly surprising that rape cases are not properly investigated. Forensic resources are conspicuous by their absence. Newspaper headlines about Delhi or Gurgaon being “rape capitals” exacerbate the problem, incentivising the police to make it harder for women to seek justice in the hope of manufacturing better crime figures.

 

For victims to get justice, we must engage in a far larger effort to eradicate the toxic attitudes passed from fathers to sons.

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/editorial/article3429555.ece

 

You can find 100s of similar articles in the last few months. I'm constantly hearing about these cases every time I walk by my dad watching the news.

 

The only somewhat positive news I came across is:

The victims of human trafficking, child abuse and kidnapping would be given a compensation of Rs.50,000 and on injury to a child victim, Rs.10,000.

The victims of acid attack in case of disfigurement of face will be getting compensation between Rs.2 to 3 lakh and in other cases of injury Rs.50,000.

http://india.nydailynews.com/article/ba07b76273ff18ecfd0a5b6acfa41056/delhi-rape-victims-to-get-rs-3-lakh-as-compensation

 

I'm sure they'd feel happier if they were compensated with their criminals being put away forever instead. But this is a start. Not sure how many victims will actually end up getting the money.

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