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4thwall

Questioning one's belief

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4thwall, I've responded to your point regarding logic several times in this thread, and you have yet to address it. Can you please explain what you find illogical about the Qur'an, or what sort of logic you would expect it to include?

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And to be completely honest 4thwall, we were quite welcoming to you, even after you told us you had apostated and thought we would all want to kill you or something. I was even excited to have you back and was afraid you'd leave since you're no longer Muslim. You, however, have been speaking in a very condescending way. Read this thread back to yourself, and note how many times you have implied that YOU are logical and WE are not. It was clearly your intent in starting this thread to make that point. Some of us are equally deep-thinking, question everything, and seek answers. I don't think you need God to have humility, but maybe you are proving me wrong?

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Things like whipping people infidelity bother me. I think a lot of my personal ethics and morals clash with islam (things like sex, homosexuality and marriage). It's just too hard lined morals which don't really work with the real world though I understand their uses in context at the time. Hadith and sunnah is sort of unnecessary. I don't see why god would want people to interpret a "perfect and understandable" book with second hand accounts of things that happened. Seeing as language is contextually based, some meanings gonna go away anyway, why not make it so complicated, why not update it? There's just a lot of problems.

 

I actually agree with all of this, but I think your understanding of Shariah (which many Muslims share with you) is very simplistic. It's not "no need for hadith" or "take every hadith literally and apply it." There is a purpose for Hadith, and perhaps it needs to be further explored. You ought to read Tariq Ramadan's book "Radical Reform," or check out some of his lectures.

 

Also this book might be of interest to you. Kind of made me critical of what Muslims term "Islam", realizing that much of it, aside from the source of the Qur'an itself, is a human attempt (and by default limited attempt) at understanding God's message. Not only that, but much of it evolved and became a codified part of Islam only through bloodshed and authoritarianism. So anyway, it's not accept everything that has become mainstream or reject every aspect of it. We can be critical of those aspects which are human interpretations of how to apply God's law.

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I don't think there's anything wrong with pointing out that I think you are wrong. I'm sure I am more respectful with being so direct.

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disagreeing with someone doesn't mean they're illogical. Even being wrong about something doesn't mean they're illogical. Logic is about thought process, methodology, and consistency. Those things can all lead to right or wrong answers - evident by many intelligent individuals of the past who made 'incorrect' conclusions.

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I've mentioned it before, not really here to debate. I realize how provoking the original post here might've been.

 

I've never really been in this position since leaving the religion. It's awkward. The most arguing of Islamic theology I've had with Muslims was in my own head and with my mother. I've bashed and defended Islam/muslims with non muslims.

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When a human rubs two rocks together, did he create the sparks or did the rocks create the sparks? One and the same, imo.

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Well, by the same manner, I can say I made a pizza. But every part of the pizza was made by different people. See where I am getting at.

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