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Mufasa

Transgender at 11

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I feel like MM likes these topics, so why not spark the forum to life a bit?

 

Interesting video about an 11 year old transgender, who was born a boy but feels, identifies and lives like a girl. Definitely seems like something biological, especially given that the doctor is involved. It's interesting because - obviously we don't know what goes on behind the scenes - but they seem like a pretty avg american family, perhaps countering claims that these sorts of things have their roots in some sort of familial instability.

 

So something to ponder: how do you think her parents should react?

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no clue, but they're kind of interesting. They challenge people's ideas with some real-life ethical dilemmas I think. They're also just interesting situations I think

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I don't understand transgenderism :( Like, what to think, how to deal with it, what I'd do if my kid were like that....

 

edit: Also, I think I like the parents' approach. Otherwise who knows what sort of perplexing identity crises that child would've gone thru. But I doubt I'd do that with my own kids.

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I think the topics of transgender/homosexuality etc are ones that are really difficult because even though religiously, these things are not allowed and acceptable, imagine for a moment, if your son who you love insanely from a young age wears girls clothing, loves make up, wants long hair and struts around whenever he can in your heels, loves girls toys, grows up and tells you he isn't comfortable in his male body, is convinced he should have been born female and that he is attracted to men. What would you do? Do you force him to live a lie and a life of misery, being uncomfortable in his own body? Do you explain to him the Islamic stance on transgender and homosexuality, and then let him make his own decision?

 

This is something I think about occasionally and it bothers me ever so slightly because if I was in that position, what on earth would I do?

When you love someone, you want to see them happy and you don't want to watch them rot in their misery, but this involves their Aakhira.

If I look at this from a non-religious perspective, I actually sympathize with people who don't feel comfortable in their own body. I can't imagine how awful that must feel, and I genuinely don't care if they decide they want a sex-change. It doesn't make them any less human.

 

Recently, a transgender teacher committed suicide. Whether the reason behind her committing suicide was because of the flack she recieved for coming back to teach her students after Christmas term as a female, or because there were other things going on in her life bar the sex change, but the way people reacted (parents trying to get her picture to give to dailyfail), how the idiot, Richard Littlejohn ostracized Lucy Meadows was horrible. It really was not needed. How much that article in the daily-fail must have affected Lucy Meadows is something most people won't be able to understand because we don't go through dillemmas where we're not comfortable in our body whilst being a school teacher, and already having to face people at school whilst not knowing how their reactions will be, let alone have the rest of the daily-fail readers hear about this just for more narrow-minded, cruel people to stand up and say "I agree, not only is he in the wrong body, he's in the wrong job too".

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/greenslade/2013/mar/22/richard-littlejohn-transgender

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I agree a lot with Fayth. Her post was very thoughtful.

 

The only thing I'd like to add is, people keep pushing that these things are "choices" but they're not. They're like a burning second nature inside of these people and it's very far from being black and white. I mean, we can hope as Muslims that we won't have to deal with it ourselves, but it doesn't stop it from being very real and existing.

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I just came across this, about effeminate men in Medina. http://www.williamapercy.com/wiki/images/The_effeminates_of_early_medina.pdf
Will read it tomorrow when I have time.
 
In the meantime, thought I'd point out that wikipedia quotes An-Nawawi (from that article), which covers what I've heard regarding this stuffz:


A mukhannath is the one ("male") who carries in his movements, in his appearance and in his language the characteristics of a woman. There are two types; the first is the one in whom these characteristics are innate, he did not put them on by himself, and therein is no guilt, no blame and no shame, as long as he does not perform any (illicit) act or exploit it for money (prostitution etc.). The second type acts like a woman out of immoral purposes and he is the sinner and blameworthy.[3]

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I just came across this, about effeminate men in Medina. http://www.williamapercy.com/wiki/images/The_effeminates_of_early_medina.pdf

Will read it tomorrow when I have time.

 

In the meantime, thought I'd point out that wikipedia quotes An-Nawawi (from that article), which covers what I've heard regarding this stuffz:

A mukhannath is the one ("male") who carries in his movements, in his appearance and in his language the characteristics of a woman. There are two types; the first is the one in whom these characteristics are innate, he did not put them on by himself, and therein is no guilt, no blame and no shame, as long as he does not perform any (illicit) act or exploit it for money (prostitution etc.). The second type acts like a woman out of immoral purposes and he is the sinner and blameworthy.[3]

 

I was about to post that, I've read that before

 

I wonder which rules of Islam apply to them then...do they wear a headscarf and do things Muslim women do or they do things Muslim men do?

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Fayth hit the nail on the head and said a lot of the things I was thinking.

 

I think the way her parents reacted is actually very good. As a parent, when you put your kid down, thats awful and can lead to a lot of psychological issues later on in life, and most especially with a situation like this. If her parents had put her down and tried to beat it out of her or told her that its wrong and treated her differently, this kid would have grown up with a very negative self-esteem to say the least and would have hated herself and not been able to integrate into society the way that she is able to now, among other problems. And the fact that her older sister's friends have treated her so well is also a good thing. They seem to be on the right track but it worries me what will happen to this kid in the near future. She's at the age where she's about to reach puberty and what happens then? How will society react to her? They wanted to keep their surname quiet but won't people who live in their area see the show and see them and then it won't be a few individuals at the school who know. I hope that they are preparing her for that psychologically and have a counsellor set and ready or are already in counselling. They've already consulted a medical doctor so that is a good start, hopefully it means they will also use a psychologist.

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Also, she looks like a girl. Its not just the long hair. I have seen little boys with long hair but they don't look like girls.

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I just came across this, about effeminate men in Medina. http://www.williamapercy.com/wiki/images/The_effeminates_of_early_medina.pdf

Will read it tomorrow when I have time.

 

In the meantime, thought I'd point out that wikipedia quotes An-Nawawi (from that article), which covers what I've heard regarding this stuffz:

A mukhannath is the one ("male") who carries in his movements, in his appearance and in his language the characteristics of a woman. There are two types; the first is the one in whom these characteristics are innate, he did not put them on by himself, and therein is no guilt, no blame and no shame, as long as he does not perform any (illicit) act or exploit it for money (prostitution etc.). The second type acts like a woman out of immoral purposes and he is the sinner and blameworthy.[3]

 

Not sure if this is an unrelated angle but i watched a documentary called Jihad For Love recently and it got me thinking about people who werent necessarily transgenders but were homosexual. In the sense that, if a guy truly felt like a woman, and therefore was attracted to a man what should he do with regards to islam?! If its something that the individual has tried to overcome by getting married and getting over it by fasting and wtv else.. Prior to watching the documentary i think I had a very close minded view of homosexuality in islam (I think I remember reading some bits on a thread on here actually) but it seriously got me thinking..

I dont know how true or accurate this is but i heard this - when a baby is in the mums tummy sometimes the medicine (or something else i dont know) but when the babes gender is obvious - when the male or female part is created, instead of sending signals to the brain indicating whether the person is a boy or a girl it sends the opposite signal.. so everything is perfect physically but the person believes that he is a girl or vice versa.

I don't know if thats even possible but i heard that somewhere and was wondering if there is some truth in it, if anyone has heard similar and if this also has something to do with how islam should treat transgenders.

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Not sure if this is an unrelated angle but i watched a documentary called Jihad For Love recently and it got me thinking about people who werent necessarily transgenders but were homosexual. In the sense that, if a guy truly felt like a woman, and therefore was attracted to a man what should he do with regards to islam?! If its something that the individual has tried to overcome by getting married and getting over it by fasting and wtv else.. Prior to watching the documentary i think I had a very close minded view of homosexuality in islam (I think I remember reading some bits on a thread on here actually) but it seriously got me thinking..

I dont know how true or accurate this is but i heard this - when a baby is in the mums tummy sometimes the medicine (or something else i dont know) but when the babes gender is obvious - when the male or female part is created, instead of sending signals to the brain indicating whether the person is a boy or a girl it sends the opposite signal.. so everything is perfect physically but the person believes that he is a girl or vice versa.

I don't know if thats even possible but i heard that somewhere and was wondering if there is some truth in it, if anyone has heard similar and if this also has something to do with how islam should treat transgenders.

 

"if a guy truly felt like a woman, and therefore was attracted to a man" : that's not the only reason men are attracted to men. most gay men don't feel like women. they just feel like men... who like men.

 

"I don't know if that's even possible": Yeah it's possible. people are born with the physical features/reproductive organs of one sex, but internally/hormonally they're born with the other.

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"if a guy truly felt like a woman, and therefore was attracted to a man" : that's not the only reason men are attracted to men. most gay men don't feel like women. they just feel like men... who like men.

 

Maybe so, but outwardly, who can judge!? .. I thought of it from a point of view what if my child for example felt that way, how would I respond, react and think.. Left me really confused :| which doesn't help but is probably the reason for this kind of discussion :)

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