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Spider

A Cyberized Interpretation of Life and the Universe

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Completely off-topic,

 

but I like you Spider :)

 

You come off as a kind and sweet person.

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^ Thanks - I like you too. :)


I know that this "universe is like a computer" analogy does sound a little wacky to many people apparently. There is no solid evidence for believing this. But, still, it is something that I have realized to possess many common relations within different fields of study in addition to Islam. I don't put more trust in those other fields of study more than I trust religion, of course, but I do find a synthesis between them with regards to the computational view of reality, and that's what I find the most interesting about this idea.

 

This idea seems to have connections between fields like metaphysics (called "digital philosophy"), computer science, culture, religion, and even with modern theoretical physics and after you connect all the dots then the whole picture tends to further support the realness of such an analogy. Even though this is not 100% provable, I think it's a very compelling one at least.

 

For example, check out the following science article titled "Black Hole Computers."

 

What is the difference between a computer and a black hole? This question sounds like the start of a Microsoft joke, but it is one of the most profound problems in physics today. Most people think of computers as specialized gizmos: streamlined boxes sitting on a desk or fingernail-size chips embedded in high-tech coffeepots. But to a physicist, all physical systems are computers. Rocks, atom bombs and galaxies may not run Linux, but they, too, register and process information. Every electron, photon and other elementary particle stores bits of data, and every time two such particles interact, those bits are transformed. Physical existence and information content are inextricably linked. As physicist John Wheeler of Princeton University says, "It from bit."

 

http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~robins/Black_Hole_Computers.pdf


Also:

"Rebooting the Cosmos: Is the Universe the Ultimate Computer?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKkiy24LqBQ

 

 

 

Sometimes I do think that the whole universe might be something like a gigantic computer which is running down and that it would eventually crash one day. But even if all the stars, galaxies, and the rest of the universe gets annihilated one day, our deeds won't disappear because they are being automatically written down and automatically saved somewhere for future retrieval ... maybe sort of like an auto-save mode (hehe) ... or perhaps even the whole universe is registering and processing bits of information and there might be some kind of a built-in "memory" system embedded inside it that records everything that we are doing.

People with more sins might take a longer time to go to Heaven because they will encounter a greater amount of obstacles and punishments than those people with less sins. This, to me, also fits into the analogy that I've been speaking of because when a computer is filled with too much junk information and viruses and all that stuff over the years, then it starts to operate more slowly. So in the same way, if our souls contain a heavier load of sins then there is going to be a greater amount of "lag" for us (a spriitual lag as opposed to a computer lag) while reaching our final destination; our sins will slow us down just like too many bugs and viruses inside a computer may cause it to operate more slowly.

 

So maybe that's why some people will reach Paradise very quickly and those with more sins will take a longer time to make it there. But, of course ... how quickly or slowly that will happen depends only on Allah's mercy, ultimately.

 

 

Just another insight that I wanted to share.

But I hope I haven't weirded out any of you gaiz here too much by writing all this.

:mellow:

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Computational processes in our computers are represented by bits. But they can be represented by almost endless ways. Sliding beads on abacus, Charles Babage's differential engine are such examples. These are physical systems which are adapted in to being computers. But that doesn't mean all physical systems are computers as stated in that article. That notion is a logical fallacy akin to stating: all MMers are humans, therefore all humans are MMers.

 

You are connecting dots very selectively inside a dense grid of dots (You can draw anything you like). Yes all things have an ending, which is true to computers and other things. Yes, our deeds are recorded, so are some data inside computers. Viruses make data processing slow, and sinners may go to heaven late. But drawing just 3 vague similarities hardly make a compelling argument.

 

Religious picture of reality and hereafter is vast. It is not surprising you can find 3 similar processes between the two. But computer is just one of the things which can be used to draw parallels. Poets may draw make parallels between flowers and reality. Flowers boom and come to life, they are beautiful and they harbor organisms. Then they die while sending seeds to "afterlife". Does this mean the universe is a flower and lives are seeds? The dynamic things in the universe reminds us of workings of the body too. Both came to being, both grow and evolve, then both die. And the harmony of the subsystems within universe is almost organic. Probably that's why Hindu philosophers have said universe started with the orgasm of Brahma (to them universe is a biological system). Such theories about the world and hereafter based on analogies are abundant. Computer simulation thing is just one of them.

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Religious picture of reality and hereafter is vast. It is not surprising you can find 3 similar processes between the two. But computer is just one of the things which can be used to draw parallels. Poets may draw make parallels between flowers and reality. Flowers boom and come to life, they are beautiful and they harbor organisms. Then they die while sending seeds to "afterlife". Does this mean the universe is a flower and lives are seeds? The dynamic things in the universe reminds us of workings of the body too. Both came to being, both grow and evolve, then both die. And the harmony of the subsystems within universe is almost organic. Probably that's why Hindu philosophers have said universe started with the orgasm of Brahma (to them universe is a biological system). Such theories about the world and hereafter based on analogies are abundant. Computer simulation thing is just one of them.

 

 

I agree with that first sentence. The religious picture of reality is much more vast than what we can comprehend.

 

However, I didn't find just 3 similarities. I have pointed out and explained at least a dozen similarities in this thread (see my previous replies).

 

Here is a list of the similarities that I mentioned earlier:

 

Quran - analogous to control system

Abrogation - analogous to data over-writing

Sins - analogous to viruses/bugs that lead to system corruption

Devil - analogous to a spammer

Prophets (peace be upon them) - analogous to Allah's "communication channels" for transmitting His message

Revelation - analogous to the sender-channel-receiver model of communication

Recording of our deeds - analogous to data storage

Greater sins - analogous to greater lag

Wiping away our sins - analogous to deleting our sins

Doomsday - analogous to a system crash

Resurrection - analogous to reversible computation / system restore

Quran correcting the previous scriptures - analogous to error correction

Miracles - analogous to hacks

 

It seems quite unlikely to me that all these concepts/ideas/beliefs between the religious view and the computational view of reality fit with each other in such a harmonious manner just by a coincidence. I think it works too well not to be true.

 

There is a striking unity behind them and it's really interesting, in my opinion.

 

 

As for the universe itself, the atoms are the representation for "bits," which encode information by flipping and interacting with one another.

 

Quote from the article:

The confluence of physics and information theory flows from the central maxim of quantum mechanics: at bottom, nature is discrete. A physical system can be described using a finite number of bits. Each particle in the system acts like the logic gate of a computer. Its spin “axis" can point in one of two directions, thereby encoding a bit, and can flip over, thereby performing a simple computational operation.

 

 

Our DNA is also like computer software, as Gregory Chaitin explains in his book Meta Math: The Quest for Omega.

 

What is this software like? It isn’t written in 0/1 binary like computer software. Instead DNA is written in a 4-letter alphabet, the 4 bases that can be each rung of the twisted double-helix ladder that is a DNA molecule.Adenine, A, thymine, T, guanine, G, and cytosine, C, are those four letters. Individual genes, which code for a single protein, are kilobases of information. And an entire human genome is measured in gigabases, so that’s sort of like gigabytes of computer software.

 

Each cell in the body has the same DNA software, the complete genome, but depending on the kind of tissue or the organ that it’s in, it runs different portions of this software, while using many basic subroutines that are common to all cells.

 

 

I can keep going and draw many other parallels ... the computational understanding of reality has tons of similarities with religion and with even physical reality and that's why it seems unlikely to me that all these things would converge or unite simply by some sort of a strange coincidence. I don't think you can find that many similarities with the flower analogy or any other analogy for reality and the hereafter as I have shown with the computer one.

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It doesn't matter whether the number of similarities are 3 or 12 or 100. As I said, computer happens to be one thing you choose to draw analogies, and similar analogies can and has been taken with other objects as well. You just pick and choose similarities. And they don't fit harmoniously.

 

If you want to truly make the analogy, you have to make one to one connection between items in the two models: Universe and computer. And you can't be vague. for example, what are sins? Viruses or bugs? If they are bugs, who is the careless programmer? Shaytan is inside this universe so how can he be analogous to a spammer, because spammers do not reside inside the computer. How does spamming make bugs? In computer system it doesn't. What is a communication channel?

Is quran really analogous to control systems? From wikipedia A control system is a device, or set of devices, that manages, commands, directs or regulates the behavior of other device(s) or system(s). Control systems physically force the behavior of other machines. Quran does not. Trying to make a connection between quran and control system requires using ambiguities of the words used in the definition and completely ignore what control systems really do.

You are just being vague. You can make a connection between anything if you are vague. That is how people connect Islam and terrorism, or Jews and illumanati, or success and idolatry.

 

 

If you really want to continue with the analogy, you will have to unambiguously define the two systems. And starting from there make solid connections.

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But we have free will and the ability to think outside the box. In a computer environment, we are either expected to do this or that, according to a predefined set of options. In real life, we can do whatever we want, within the limits of nature. But still, when it comes to expressing and coming up with thoughts and actions, we are in control. We have art, which is the expression of emotions and that free thought.

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God has clearly said that he created the world in 6 days, he created the beings, and everything that is in the earth and the heavens belongth to him. He did not create an illusion, it is rather that people get led astray by the life of this world when it is only temporary.

 

This is a real world, with real water, with real fruit and real animals and real humans, and real plants etc. In this real world,

God had allowed ie for a table to be spreadth of food from Heaven at the time of Prophet Jesus peace be upon him.

He himself spoke to Prophet Moses peace be upon him in this real world.

We are real people that eat real food to keep us alive, and air to breath, which is real.

 

Remember Allah and the Day of Judgement much.

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Posting once again to reveal my latest analogy!

 

This one highlights a few common personality traits I noticed between online trolls and the munafiqeen/hypocrites.

 

:ph34r:

 

Trolls on the internet, basically, go around flattering and lying about themselves to others, and they argue, incite chaos and disruption, and feel pleasure at the suffering of others (sadism).

 

Overall, the authors found that the relationship between sadism and trolling was the strongest, and that indeed, sadists appear to troll because they find it pleasurable. "Both trolls and sadists feel sadistic glee at the distress of others," they wrote. "Sadists just want to have fun ... and the Internet is their playground!"

 

And, like online trolls, we know that the hypocrites are also deceitful, quarrelsome, create mischief on the earth, and they feel sadistic glee at the suffering of others, particularly the believers:

"If any good befalls you, it grieves them (the hypocrites); and if some misfortune overtakes you, they rejoice at it." (Surah 3:120)

 

“Had they marched out with you, they would have added to you nothing except disorder and they would have hurried about in your midst seeking for you dissension (fitnah), and there are some among you who would have listened to them.” (Surah 9:47)

 

"Yet he is the most quarrelsome of opponents." (Surah 2:204)

 

 

So, now, I've been starting to think of the hypocrites as being analogous to trolls - or like "trolls in real life," in some ways - but the Quran has exposed these loser trolls (the hypocrites).

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^ what if it's not that you have "sadistic glee" from doing it? maybe your bored...

 

but i guess depends on the type of trolling and what things you stir up... :hmm:

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^ what if it's not that you have "sadistic glee" from doing it? maybe your bored...

 

That's possible, too.

 

Then again, even if you're bored, and you decide to troll, then I think you must lack a decent amount of empathy to continue doing what you're doing (trolling) and still be enjoying it. So, although trolling might not always be suggestive of sadism, oftentimes it indicates that trolls have a low empathy for others, or that they don't really care when they see other people getting irritated by their odd behaviors. Yes, there might be different reasons or motivations for trolling, depending on the person and the situation that he's in. Sometimes people troll just to entertain others. Sometimes they do it to rile up things just for the fun of it, thereby quelling their boredom for a little while. Nonetheless, trolling tends to have negative consequences on yourself and others because it is always indiscreet and it results in creating a fake online persona (which is a deception).

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