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So what do you guys think of feminism coming from a Muslim perspective or just personally? Politically, culturally, etc. Here are some of my ideas to get it started.

 

 

 

I think there shouldn't be any laws that favor any woman over a man OR any man over a woman. I think in the east there are plenty of laws which put women down. In the west though, marital laws are pretty bad for men, you can get divorced and have a good chunk of your income taken from you. There's also the male only draft.

What's more interesting to me then the political aspect of it, is gender and personal behavior. Should men take total responsibility of their wife? What is a woman's duties? Should it be totally equal?
CAN it be totally equal? I think, I have no idea. I am still undecided on this.

Also biologically, are men and women equal as in the same? I don't think so. We literally have a chromosome of difference. That can't ONLY effect reproduction. All species have some sort of mating behavior, what is ours?

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Well, the specific cases you mention (child custody, mandatory military service) are not so black-and-white as to say they 'favor' or 'disfavor' men or women. They align with traditional ideals of man as provider and able-bodied and woman as caretaker. These trends are generally changing, too, and your mentality is steeped within and representative of these changes. I don't believe that a law or society is anti- men or women, but traditional notions of manhood or womanhood (probably a result of evolution) can often conflict with modern ideals of freedoms and equality (result of changes particular to the West - perhaps 'The Enlightenment). I think it can be difficult to be a woman or difficult to be a man; it depends on the individual.

 

Statistically, however, we know that there are factors that harm women and factors that harm men. Women tend to be far more structurally discriminated against. For instance, women tend to be underpaid, suffer more often from body-image problems, are far more likely to be the victims of sexual assault or other forms of violence, and are often far underrepresented in the fields that make and shake the world; men, on the other hand, are often unable to adequately express themselves, and are susceptible to all of those same things women are more susceptible to, but are often unable to speak about them, have to put up an image that does not necessarily represent them or appear 'weak' and, in my opinion, are probably susceptible to even more extreme forms of low self-esteem (probably too big a topic for here though).

 

So in general, its about you as an individual. Feminism is good, so long as it doesn't downplay or underestimate the problems that individual men also suffer from. I think it also has to be culturally-sensitive and recognize that feminism should look different for some than for others. Traditional womanly roles, for instance, can also be used as forms of empowerment. As collectives though, I think it's safe to assume women tend to have it rougher, and feminism has a necessary role and purpose. That cannot delegitimize the experiences of individuals, though -- but unfortunately too often does.

 

One time, for instance, this feminist was arguing with a guy who literally had been bullied throughout middle and high school, and attempted suicide, that women have more problems with self-esteem because of the media influence and whatnot. I wanted to tell her she was an idiot for who she was debating; and I kind of did. It totally downplayed his own struggles, which were probably far, far worse than her's -- gender is irrelevant when it comes to lived experiences, because people, at the end of the day, are not statistics or groupings.

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I think there shouldn't be any laws that favor any woman over a man OR any man over a woman. I think in the east there are plenty of laws which put women down. In the west though, marital laws are pretty bad for men, you can get divorced and have a good chunk of your income taken from you.

That's untrue. Marital law in England isn't in favour of women. In most cases, it's the man that earns more than the woman, hence with its a split of 50/50 wealth between the man and the woman. If the woman was the wealthy one in the marrisge, then it would be her wealth/assets which would be split between her and her (ex) husband.

 

In terms of feminism, however. As a Muslim woman, I certainly think there is a need for feminism amongst the Muslim population. Eg, Pakistan; a group of women got raped, they are the ones who ended up in prison on the basis that they shouldn't have been travelling without mahrems.

 

I'll elaborate more when I get the chance insha allah.

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I don't think there can be 'equality' between men and women as they are inherently different. But there should be 'equity'.

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gender inequality, unlike other forms such as racial inequality, can't be based on generational arguments. it isn't something that is inherited by women like being black is inherited by blacks.

 

I'd say a majority of the perceived inequalities when it comes to gender are all tied strictly to a) culture and B) lifestyle choice. A woman who takes time off work to raise her kids is obviously not going to be exposed to the same opportunities as a male bachelor, or even a working husband who has not taken any time out of work. It is biologically unavoidable that a woman takes at least half a year off work per child she has, and typically if a previously two income household of an earning husband and wife decides to have a child, the man will haul ass and work overtime.

i think if a study is done that singles out career orientated women (never married, no kids) and matches them up against career orientated men (never married, no kids), they'll find equality between the two.

i also think it is important to take into account culture clashes with what gender roles are and how new technologies and exposure to media have made things that weren't previously issues into issues.

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Well, the specific cases you mention (child custody, mandatory military service) are not so black-and-white as to say they 'favor' or 'disfavor' men or women. They align with traditional ideals of man as provider and able-bodied and woman as caretaker. These trends are generally changing, too, and your mentality is steeped within and representative of these changes. I don't believe that a law or society is anti- men or women, but traditional notions of manhood or womanhood (probably a result of evolution) can often conflict with modern ideals of freedoms and equality (result of changes particular to the West - perhaps 'The Enlightenment). I think it can be difficult to be a woman or difficult to be a man; it depends on the individual.

 

Statistically, however, we know that there are factors that harm women and factors that harm men. Women tend to be far more structurally discriminated against. For instance, women tend to be underpaid, suffer more often from body-image problems, are far more likely to be the victims of sexual assault or other forms of violence, and are often far underrepresented in the fields that make and shake the world; men, on the other hand, are often unable to adequately express themselves, and are susceptible to all of those same things women are more susceptible to, but are often unable to speak about them, have to put up an image that does not necessarily represent them or appear 'weak' and, in my opinion, are probably susceptible to even more extreme forms of low self-esteem (probably too big a topic for here though).

 

So in general, its about you as an individual. Feminism is good, so long as it doesn't downplay or underestimate the problems that individual men also suffer from. I think it also has to be culturally-sensitive and recognize that feminism should look different for some than for others. Traditional womanly roles, for instance, can also be used as forms of empowerment. As collectives though, I think it's safe to assume women tend to have it rougher, and feminism has a necessary role and purpose. That cannot delegitimize the experiences of individuals, though -- but unfortunately too often does.

 

One time, for instance, this feminist was arguing with a guy who literally had been bullied throughout middle and high school, and attempted suicide, that women have more problems with self-esteem because of the media influence and whatnot. I wanted to tell her she was an idiot for who she was debating; and I kind of did. It totally downplayed his own struggles, which were probably far, far worse than her's -- gender is irrelevant when it comes to lived experiences, because people, at the end of the day, are not statistics or groupings.

 

Well, the specific cases you mention (child custody, mandatory military service) are not so black-and-white as to say they 'favor' or 'disfavor' men or women. They align with traditional ideals of man as provider and able-bodied and woman as caretaker. These trends are generally changing, too, and your mentality is steeped within and representative of these changes. I don't believe that a law or society is anti- men or women, but traditional notions of manhood or womanhood (probably a result of evolution) can often conflict with modern ideals of freedoms and equality (result of changes particular to the West - perhaps 'The Enlightenment). I think it can be difficult to be a woman or difficult to be a man; it depends on the individual.

 

Statistically, however, we know that there are factors that harm women and factors that harm men. Women tend to be far more structurally discriminated against. For instance, women tend to be underpaid, suffer more often from body-image problems, are far more likely to be the victims of sexual assault or other forms of violence, and are often far underrepresented in the fields that make and shake the world; men, on the other hand, are often unable to adequately express themselves, and are susceptible to all of those same things women are more susceptible to, but are often unable to speak about them, have to put up an image that does not necessarily represent them or appear 'weak' and, in my opinion, are probably susceptible to even more extreme forms of low self-esteem (probably too big a topic for here though).

 

So in general, its about you as an individual. Feminism is good, so long as it doesn't downplay or underestimate the problems that individual men also suffer from. I think it also has to be culturally-sensitive and recognize that feminism should look different for some than for others. Traditional womanly roles, for instance, can also be used as forms of empowerment. As collectives though, I think it's safe to assume women tend to have it rougher, and feminism has a necessary role and purpose. That cannot delegitimize the experiences of individuals, though -- but unfortunately too often does.

 

One time, for instance, this feminist was arguing with a guy who literally had been bullied throughout middle and high school, and attempted suicide, that women have more problems with self-esteem because of the media influence and whatnot. I wanted to tell her she was an idiot for who she was debating; and I kind of did. It totally downplayed his own struggles, which were probably far, far worse than her's -- gender is irrelevant when it comes to lived experiences, because people, at the end of the day, are not statistics or groupings.

 

:thumbup:

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gender inequality, unlike other forms such as racial inequality, can't be based on generational arguments. it isn't something that is inherited by women like being black is inherited by blacks.

 

I'd say a majority of the perceived inequalities when it comes to gender are all tied strictly to a) culture and B) lifestyle choice. A woman who takes time off work to raise her kids is obviously not going to be exposed to the same opportunities as a male bachelor, or even a working husband who has not taken any time out of work. It is biologically unavoidable that a woman takes at least half a year off work per child she has, and typically if a previously two income household of an earning husband and wife decides to have a child, the man will haul ass and work overtime.

i think if a study is done that singles out career orientated women (never married, no kids) and matches them up against career orientated men (never married, no kids), they'll find equality between the two.

i also think it is important to take into account culture clashes with what gender roles are and how new technologies and exposure to media have made things that weren't previously issues into issues.

 

1. What do you mean by the first paragraph- not sure I understand.

2. Most women do not take off 6 months per child. They take off about 10-12 weeks. And in the US, unlike in the UK, it is often not paid leave.

3. I think you need to be careful about using 'smooth' ways to justify sexism. There's no reason why, consistently and quantifiably, women are being paid less for doing the same jobs as men. The fact that they might, hypothetically, eventually have a child does not in the least bit justify why they should be paid less.

4. Statistically, women are actually higher achievers than men, in terms of grades in school, days they take off from work, productivity, and so on. And anecdotally, they're incredibly more pleasant to work with.

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gender inequality, unlike other forms such as racial inequality, can't be based on generational arguments. it isn't something that is inherited by women like being black is inherited by blacks.

 

I'd say a majority of the perceived inequalities when it comes to gender are all tied strictly to a) culture and B) lifestyle choice. A woman who takes time off work to raise her kids is obviously not going to be exposed to the same opportunities as a male bachelor, or even a working husband who has not taken any time out of work. It is biologically unavoidable that a woman takes at least half a year off work per child she has, and typically if a previously two income household of an earning husband and wife decides to have a child, the man will haul ass and work overtime.

i think if a study is done that singles out career orientated women (never married, no kids) and matches them up against career orientated men (never married, no kids), they'll find equality between the two.

i also think it is important to take into account culture clashes with what gender roles are and how new technologies and exposure to media have made things that weren't previously issues into issues.

 

@ bold, no they do not match up. Even when controlled for every single factor, men still make more money than women do, performing the exact same work.

 

Also, in the U.S. there is no mandatory maternity leave, and women often go back to work within six weeks. In Canada we're luckier, we get six months of mat leave. The situation is much worse in America, the work culture and lack of benefits make it much harder to have children.

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Equal rights are good. There are biological differences obviously, but I don't believe most of the psychological stuff about people being more suited to certain masculine vs. feminine things. At least, there are enough exceptions to the 'rule' that it doesn't make sense to make legislation around antiquated ideas of gender roles.

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Good, thoughtful and important comment

It's just as effective. When you get past 25-27 years old and if you're still on this forum you'll get the same epiphany.

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If women are treated equally like men then it, there is an open competition between men and women. Islamic ideology restricts women in some issues like being social, if one is aware of a society having no limitations than they are well aware of the consequences of such freedom.

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It's just as effective. When you get past 25-27 years old and if you're still on this forum you'll get the same epiphany.

 

Then what are you still doing here?

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