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Spider

Hell, Mercy, and Time Preference

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Yes I agree with you... Also however this rigidness and inflexibility with uncommon perspectives is borne from a fundamental reserve/fear as a result of ignorance. I don't mean ignorance in a condescending or judgmental way - I mean a very literal ignorance around what legitimately exists outside of the narrow prescriptive lens we've swallowed our whole lives. Many people falsely assume that it's people with little knowledge who veer towards unorthodox interpretations, however its often people who have been on a long journey beforehand which allows them to confidently settle within different views/approaches.

 

I agree. I myself probably take a fairly textual approach to religion, and am not totally compelled toward these very counter-intuitive thoughts, but my concern is that it is not something totally innocent. That certain regions are seen to have historically had more 'authentic' scholarship and certain figures have received attention, while other regions (the subcontinent, Anatolia, Persia, West Africa, etc.) are seen as having inauthentic, folk practices. In some ways, it's a narrowly defined understanding of religion that seems to really match with Protestantism's textual approach, so what happens is a flourishing history of philosophy and mysticism are written out and certain individuals - with a fairly narrow range - come out winners of the purge. These individuals who are "fearful", that you speak of, are obviously themselves genuine and innocent, but they (and we) are the result of certain processes.

 

Was that cryptic? sorry if so

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This inability to think out side the box is common in subjects out side Islam too.

I'm gonna quote this next time I bring up fake wombs and you cant understand the underlying point Im making :P

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I'm gonna quote this next time I bring up fake wombs and you cant understand the underlying point Im making :P

the flip side of people holing up in the box is that people start crapping outside the potty - far outside because they don't understand the boundaries. Not understanding the boundaries is the root problem when it comes to muslims.

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the flip side of people holing up in the box is that people start crapping outside the potty - far outside because they don't understand the boundaries. Not understanding the boundaries is the root problem when it comes to muslims.

Those who think others talk too far outside the box often don't understand what theyre saying because theyre so used to living in the box ;]

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Those who think others talk too far outside the box often don't understand what theyre saying because theyre so used to living in the box ;]

in that sense spider is right about 9/11 and you are living in the standard box.

 

btw, I am reading the book by that israeli historian and I am developing unpositive opinions on him very fast,

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in that sense spider is right about 9/11 and you are living in the standard box.

 

btw, I am reading the book by that israeli historian and I am developing unpositive opinions on him very fast,

haha for real? how come?

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and yes i will find a way to fit fake wombs into every thread

 

Fake wombs would literally rid me of my only superpower.

 

in that sense spider is right about 9/11 and you are living in the standard box.

 

btw, I am reading the book by that israeli historian and I am developing unpositive opinions on him very fast,

 

"Unpositive" is not a word you beeping beep!

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in that sense spider is right about 9/11 and you are living in the standard box.

 

btw, I am reading the book by that israeli historian and I am developing unpositive opinions on him very fast,

you got it fast man. you couldnt have read that much? keep an open mind! but tell me what you find unlikable in my thread. i havent read it, so cant agree or disagree, but ive read his previous book and listened to his speehes...

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you got it fast man. you couldnt have read that much? keep an open mind! but tell me what you find unlikable in my thread. i havent read it, so cant agree or disagree, but ive read his previous book and listened to his speehes...

I am reading his first book 'the brief history'. I got to know him few days before you mentioned him. Still in the intro, but this guy is talking about evolution and making some very loose stories. Sounds like a young boy retelling the story of evolution. Showing he doesn't have indepth understanding in this area. But he is basing his beliefs/conclusions on this narrative. Also he's injecting his beliefs into the story all the time. Overall unprofessional, opinionated, loose logic.

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I am reading his first book 'the brief history'. I got to know him few days before you mentioned him. Still in the intro, but this guy is talking about evolution and making some very loose stories. Sounds like a young boy retelling the story of evolution. Showing he doesn't have indepth understanding in this area. But he is basing his beliefs/conclusions on this narrative. Also he's injecting his beliefs into the story all the time. Overall unprofessional, opinionated, loose logic.

 

Have you heard of the "Big History Project"? What do you think of it if so?

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The responses to the original post (which are the expected responses today) show how we've been so bombarded by a textual/scriptural approach that all others seem outlandish. I understand that people have a problem with interpretations that go far beyond the text, and especially ones that might be counter-intuitive, but such has always been popular in Muslim societies, and has been transmitted through poetry, and music, and art, and Sufism. Sure, al-Hallaj had harsh critics in his own time (and thus was executed), and Ibn al-Arabi was called both the Great Shaykh and the Greatest Disbeliever, and indeed the likes of Al Ghazali or Ibn Taymiyya had rightful criticisms, but to just dismiss this sort of thinking and these sorts of individuals as "total nonsense" is very telling of the staleness and homogeneity of popular Islam today. It's as though they cannot even engage in something *outside the box*.

 

Obviously their point is not about Iblis - it's about submission.

 

Just my cent.

 

There are certain interpretations which are very clear and you can be 100% sure that they are correct. So it's not a matter of "thinking outside the box."
You are trying to change the subject by saying it wasn't about Iblis, but it was. It was particularly about Iblis in relation to the issue of submission, which you mentioned in your own posts. But there is no justifiable argument to support the idea that Iblis loved Allah and that that is the reason he didn't bow to anyone else. This is not counter-intuitive but simply wrong; the Quran clearly states that Iblis didn't prostate to Adam because of his arrogance.

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