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Status and Responsibilities of Husband and Wife [split thread]

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^ Did I ever say anything that conveys that it takes only a woman or only a man to raise a child?

 

If I did, then please quote it.

 

I disagree with everything you said. That women are MORE capable and it is MORE their role. I don't think it is 1% more the woman's role to take care of the child. It is a 50-50 job

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^stay and change. leaving wont make anything better

 

I have changed and it was all thanks to Musa's beautiful face.

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I don't believe that women are "so inferior" at logical thinking. You're stretching my argument a little too far ...

 

I suggest that you read my posts a little more carefully.

 

 

And that's one of the main reasons why men, generally, are more capable of working than women. That is exactly the point that I've been trying to make.

 

It's not the point you were trying to make. "Capable" refers to an inherent ability. I am capable of carrying a child, a man is not. Women having to CHOOSE to not work long hours at job so that they can devote those long hours at home doesn't mean that they're not capable of it, it means they have less opportunities. Considering that spending the whole day with a screaming child is totally exhausting and requires constant attention (not at work where you can goof off on FB for a few minutes), I think the fact that women often end up caring for children says more about their ability to work long, hard hours than it doesn't.

 

Also lol@ guys building up this image of a strong, manly man provider. I highly doubt most of the people saying this could even chop down a tree. Please do that and come back to talk to me about manly men providing for their women.

So ... you've just given a further reasoning for my own arguments. :P

 

 

I think you are getting way too emotional here, and that's not good. I don't think my comments are backwards and sexist. I mean, I've pretty much backed up everything that I've been saying in this thread with lengthy explanations, Quranic verses, and scholarly interpretations. You just have to read them more carefully and try to understand what I'm saying. I think you just did a very cursory reading of my posts and that's why you think that I'm being sexist and backwards.

 

You are being sexist and backwards, and that's not me being "too emotional." If I'm angry, it's because I have every right to be. Trust me, I'm more than moving on with my life and Alhumdulillah I'm at a place where some random Internet guy's comments aren't going to personally affect me.

 

But while I have the option of ignoring you and moving on with my life, a lot of other women are unfortunately too sheltered to escape opinions like yours.

 

The reasons you have outlined - that women are inferior to men, that they can't bring in an income as well, etc - are why people kill their female infants. Now, I know you're obviously not advocating for that, but before you accuse me of exaggerating and bringing in irrelevant things - think for a second. Those are literally the justifications people give. They're poor and can't afford to take on a child that's not preferable. So your line of thinking oppresses and even kills women. So I will be angry. You clearly don't have a personal stake in this, but if I see my sisters suffering, I do.

 

And stay, please. Don't get so mad about what some random guy on the internet might say or think about something.

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Women having to CHOOSE to not work long hours at job so that they can devote those long hours at home doesn't mean that they're not capable of it, it means they have less opportunities.

 

Having less opportunities does hamper one's ability to do something, doesn't it? If I had less opportunities for working long hours, then it reasonably follows that I have an equally less capability for doing so, taking all things into consideration.

 

So now, since women have less opportunities for working long hours (due to them being mothers), it can be similarly argued that women are less capable as financial providers as compared to men.

 

Where is the flaw in that?

 

Also lol@ guys building up this image of a strong, manly man provider. I highly doubt most of the people saying this could even chop down a tree. Please do that and come back to talk to me about manly men providing for their women.

 

O RLY?

 

"Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel over others and because they spend out of their wealth." (Surah 4:34)

 

Al-Baydaawi said in his Tafseer (2/184): " 'Men are the protectors and maintainers of women' means that they are in charge of them and take care of them. He gave two reasons for that, one that is inherent in them and one that is acquired subsequently, and said: 'because Allaah has made one of them to excel the other', because Allaah has favoured men over women by making men more perfect in reasoning and running affairs, and has given them more strength with regard to work and acts of worship. Hence men are singled out when it comes to Prophethood, leadership, guardianship, establishing rituals, giving testimony in legal matters, the obligation to engage in jihad and pray Jumu’ah, and so on, and they are given a greater share of inheritance, and divorce is in the man’s hand. ‘and because they spend (to support them) from their means’ refers to what they spend with regard to marriage, such as the mahr and maintenance, etc." End quote.

 

Now THERE'S a strong, manly man provider for ya. :P

 

So your line of thinking oppresses and even kills women.

 

If that is so, then why did I quote the following verse on the first page:

 

"O you who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should you treat them with harshness, that you may take away part of the dowry you have given them, except when they have become guilty of open lewdness. On the contrary, live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If you take a dislike to them, it may be that you dislike something and Allah will bring about through it a great deal of good." (Surah 4:29)

 

And why did I quote this verse as well: "They (your wives) are a garment for you and you are a garment for them" (Surah 2:187).

 

How can I possibly maintain an oppressive line of thinking if I agree with such statements?

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I disagree with everything you said. That women are MORE capable and it is MORE their role. I don't think it is 1% more the woman's role to take care of the child. It is a 50-50 job

 

Maybe you're right. And so was Summer.

 

I don't actually have any solid evidence nor argument to prove that one of the parents have a greater responsibility than the other. It's not like we can find this in the Quran or anything (unlike the roles of a husband and wife mentioned therein). So, I guess this was just an opinion, and I can understand why people might disagree.

 

I was referring to mainly the superior nurturing aspects of a mother compared to a father - things like feeding, cleaning, dressing, changing diapers, etc. - as well as having a better emotional understanding of what the child is going through, which altogether I think has a stronger impact on the child than a father might have on them. I'm not saying that a father can't do those things just as well as a mother can. However, more often than not, it is the mother who takes responsibility for those things.

 

The father is more of a provider whereas the mother is the nurturer. I know it's a generalization but it's also a realistically popular opinion. And I think this opinion is not without good reason. Mothers evolved this way most likely because caring and nurturing a child is something that they have to do right at the moment they give birth. In the first days of a baby, the mother is right there every second, unwavering and is the one to give comfort whenever the baby is seen crying.

 

Those I think are some of the reasons why mothers feel compelled to work less than the fathers do. And this, once again, falls in line with the religious (and even cultural) viewpoint that men are generally more responsible than women as the financial providers of their families.

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I was referring to mainly the superior nurturing aspects of a mother compared to a father - things like feeding, cleaning, dressing, changing diapers, etc. - as well as having a better emotional understanding of what the child is going through, which altogether I think has a stronger impact on the child than a father might have on them. I'm not saying that a father can't do those things just as well as a mother can. However, more often than not, it is the mother who takes responsibility for those things.

 

 

 

Here are where your problems lie.

 

What you say about cleaning, dressing the child, and changing the diapers being a role of the woman due to the fact that she is more nurturing is not only inaccurate and absurd, it's just downright offensive. I do not know why a mother can change a diaper in a more nurturing way than the father and why this has a superior impact on the child. Either parent can and should change the baby's diaper; this is what Islam demands. The Prophet (PBUH) never asked his wife to do anything for him. If his clothes were ripped he sewed them, if there was a mess he cleaned it. What you are saying about the house being the job of the wife is the exact opposite of what our Prophet (PBUH) teaches us and he had a harder job than any other man could have.

 

I understand many families across the world have it setup so that the woman does all the house work, but that is simply the man taking advantage of his wife and treating her like a servant and he is some king. Don't use examples of society to try and define Islam when you should be doing the opposite.

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What you say about cleaning, dressing the child, and changing the diapers being a role of the woman due to the fact that she is more nurturing is not only inaccurate and absurd, it's just downright offensive.

 

I agree, and that's why I never said that men and women can't switch roles if needed. They certainly can, whenever they wish to. However, it's my opinion that women generally are better at caring and nurturing their children than men are, so they are better 'fit' for doing that job. This is one of the roles in which women exceed over men, in my opinion. But it looks like we're gonna have to just agree to disagree on that point.

 

I understand many families across the world have it setup so that the woman does all the house work, but that is simply the man taking advantage of his wife and treating her like a servant and he is some king. Don't use examples of society to try and define Islam when you should be doing the opposite.

 

I think that's definitely wrong, so I wasn't trying to imply that either.

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I agree, and that's why I never said that men and women can't switch roles if needed.

 

 

 

You don't agree, you're missing my point. Changing the babies diaper was never the role of the women. Allah did not create the women and assign them the task of changing the babies diaper. That is insulting.

 

You are saying one role is better for the woman; I am saying you are wrong. They share this role and the mother is not better at being a parent, she should contribute 50%. I don't know why you think we are saying similar things when in fact we are no where close

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You don't agree, you're missing my point. Changing the babies diaper was never the role of the women. Allah did not create the women and assign them the task of changing the babies diaper. That is insulting.

 

Why do you mention the changing of the diapers only? I mentioned several other things, which include things like feeding, cleaning, dressing, and having a better emotional understanding of the child as well, which I think moms are better at.

 

I mentioned them altogether ... and yet you keep bringing up the diapers only. <_<

 

You are saying one role is better for the woman; I am saying you are wrong. They share this role and the mother is not better at being a parent, she should contribute 50%.

 

Does that mean that there is no role for the woman which she exceeds in over the man, at all?

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Why do you mention the changing of the diapers only? I mentioned several other things,, which include things like feeding, cleaning, dressing, and having a better emotional understanding of the child as well, which I think moms are better at.

 

I mentioned them altogether ... and yet you keep talking about the diapers only. <_<

 

 

You mentioned feeding, cleaning, dressing, and having a better emotional understanding. If you mean breast feeding I'll grant you that; that is a gift Allah gave only to women.

 

Cleaning, dressing, and having a better emotional understanding are all insulting. Allah did not created women and assign them the task of cleaning. Allah did not created women and assign them the task of dressing the children. Allah did not created women and assign them the task of understanding what the children are going to. That is insulting. These tasks are not unique to the wife and if you do not contribute to these you are not fulfilling your entire role as a husband. You cannot provide Islamic evidence to any of this and I have given you Islamic evidence contradicting it. I'm not quite sure what is is you're missing.

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^ Yeah, Allah didn't assign those tasks for the women only. I know that. However, aren't the women usually better in those tasks than men?

 

And if the answer is no, then is there any particular role which the women excel in over the men?

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^ Yeah, Allah didn't assign those tasks for the women only. I know that. However, aren't the women usually better in those tasks than men?

 

 

Women are usually made to do those tasks, but sex in no way determines superiority of dressing a child.

 

And if the answer is no, then is there any particular role which the women excel in over the men?

 

 

I am sure there is wisdom in Allah having one woman and one man raise a child and I am sure they both have equally important, but different roles. I am not the best person to list all of those roles, but a few areas Allah chose women to excel over men are: carrying at least one baby for about 9 months (which takes an emotional and physical toll), going through the pain of child labor, breastfeeding the children and being awake every time the baby gets hungry.

 

Men are too weak to be able to bear all that.

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Women are usually made to do those tasks, but sex in no way determines superiority of dressing a child.

 

I am sure there is wisdom in Allah having one woman and one man raise a child and I am sure they both have equally important, but different roles. I am not the best person to list all of those roles, but a few areas Allah chose women to excel over men are: carrying at least one baby for about 9 months (which takes an emotional and physical toll), going through the pain of child labor, breastfeeding the children and being awake every time the baby gets hungry.

 

Men are too weak to be able to bear all that.

 

LOL. Now you're telling me that there are some roles which women are better at than men, which I agree with.

 

So, then, why did you tell me this before:

 

You are saying one role is better for the woman; I am saying you are wrong.

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