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Venomystic

Status of Hafsah (RA)

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I was listening to the tafseer of Surah Tahreem by Nouman Ali Khan and he narrated some ahadith, and stories of Umar (RA) related to the honey incident involving Zainab, Aisha and Hafsa. He mentioned that Umar (RA) told Hafsa not to compete with Aisha because she was prettier than her and more beloved to Rasulullah (SAW) than Hafsah. And also, when Umar (RA) heard that the Prophet (SAW) has divorced his wives, he went to Hafsah (RA) and told her that the Prophet (SAW) didn't even love her, he (SAW) only kept her out of his love for Umar (RA). This made Hafsah (RA) cry.

So I was wondering...isn't this over the top? Wouldn't speaking like this to your daughter totally crush her self-esteem? I mean, why tell her another woman is prettier than her (from what I've learned, Hafsa was quite a beauty in her own right). On one hand we have scholars telling dads to be good to their daughters and build their self esteem and on the other hand we have this example of Umar (RA). I understand that he loved his daughter and wanted the best for her, but couldn't there have been a better way?

Also, regarding the honey incident: it was initially Aisha (RA) who got jealous of Zaynab getting to spend more time with the Prophet (SAW) but Hafsah (RA) was the one who ended up getting in trouble the most. How come the Prophet (SAW) didn't say anything to Aisha (RA) about hatching the plan?

Finally, I've read an incident where Hafsah (RA) was arguing with the Prophet (SAW) and he (SAW) got annoyed. And Umar found out and rebuked his daughter and she said that Aisha (RA) argued with the Prophet (SAW) too. Whereupon Umar again told her not to compete with Aisha. Isn't this kinda unfair? If one wife is allowed to argue, why not the other? As far as I know, favoritism among wives is only allowed with regards to the feelings in the heart; everything else from time to attitude must be equal for all wives.

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So, what I mean to say is that I'm suddenly confused about Hafsah's (RA) importance in general, and in the Prophet's (SAW) life? Did he really just marry her out of pity? And does marrying a divorcee or widow mean that that woman cannot speak her mind or that she has to live like she is inferior? After hearing all these incidents, I kinda feel sad for Hafsah (RA).

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Umar (RA) was basically saying that his daughter should be a humble wife and not cause problems for the Prophet (PBUH). He said just cause Aisha (RA) did something it doesn't mean she should too.

 

Umar (RA) was implying she should be grateful that she was married as the Prophet (PBUH) married her out of kindness. Neither Uthman (RA) nor Abu Bakr (RA) would marry her.

 

Don't forget the other example of a widow in the form of one of the Prophet (PBUB) wives: Khadijah (RA), who the Prophet (PBUH) is said to have loved the most.

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But marrying out of kindness doesn't seem like a good reason to get married?

 

She (RA) had at least 3 of the 4 Islamic qualities (don't have information on her beauty or the Prophet (PBUH) view of beauty), but she was wealthy, of a good lineage but most importantly a woman with strong belief.

 

Also it's not too bizarre in Arabian (as in the original tribal Arabs) to marry out of kindness. I know many people who married widows in order to give them a place to be. My grandfather's second and third wives were both married for that reason and gained a family by doing so. That doesn't mean the Prophet (PBUH) didn't love her.

 

For a woman in a culture where for the most part where it is hard to be independent, having a husband offers a lot of freedom and security they couldn't have otherwise. It also gives them a sense of belonging and let's them attend to their needs both emotionally and physically.

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But marrying out of kindness doesn't seem like a good reason to get married?

what's a good reason to marry?

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because you like them, not because you feel sorry for them

who said Hafsa (RA) was married out of feeling sorry and not like?

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I was listening to the tafseer of Surah Tahreem by Nouman Ali Khan and he narrated some ahadith, and stories of Umar (RA) related to the honey incident involving Zainab, Aisha and Hafsa. He mentioned that Umar (RA) told Hafsa not to compete with Aisha because she was prettier than her and more beloved to Rasulullah (SAW) than Hafsah. And also, when Umar (RA) heard that the Prophet (SAW) has divorced his wives, he went to Hafsah (RA) and told her that the Prophet (SAW) didn't even love her, he (SAW) only kept her out of his love for Umar (RA). This made Hafsah (RA) cry.

So I was wondering...isn't this over the top? Wouldn't speaking like this to your daughter totally crush her self-esteem? I mean, why tell her another woman is prettier than her (from what I've learned, Hafsa was quite a beauty in her own right). On one hand we have scholars telling dads to be good to their daughters and build their self esteem and on the other hand we have this example of Umar (RA). I understand that he loved his daughter and wanted the best for her, but couldn't there have been a better way?

Also, regarding the honey incident: it was initially Aisha (RA) who got jealous of Zaynab getting to spend more time with the Prophet (SAW) but Hafsah (RA) was the one who ended up getting in trouble the most. How come the Prophet (SAW) didn't say anything to Aisha (RA) about hatching the plan?

Finally, I've read an incident where Hafsah (RA) was arguing with the Prophet (SAW) and he (SAW) got annoyed. And Umar found out and rebuked his daughter and she said that Aisha (RA) argued with the Prophet (SAW) too. Whereupon Umar again told her not to compete with Aisha. Isn't this kinda unfair? If one wife is allowed to argue, why not the other? As far as I know, favoritism among wives is only allowed with regards to the feelings in the heart; everything else from time to attitude must be equal for all wives.

 

 

Are you sure this is all there was to it? I can't imagine NAK narrating stories like that and not addressing the points you (and many others would) bring up at the same time?

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Are you sure this is all there was to it? I can't imagine NAK narrating stories like that and not addressing the points you (and many others would) bring up at the same time?

He did say many times that he didn't like narrating these incidents but had to for the purpose of education. And he said that Umar (RA) said all this to his daughter because he was a very direct person and it was sort of 'tough love'. It's a very lengthy lecture (on Bayyinah TV) and I do understand the context (which was Umar RA not wanting his daughter to lose her dunya and akhirah if the Prophet (SAW) divorced her) - BUT my question remains: even if a person is 'direct', I can't imagine it's good to speak to your daughter like this?

And the last incident is something I read on my own, not from NAK's lecture

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He did say many times that he didn't like narrating these incidents but had to for the purpose of education. And he said that Umar (RA) said all this to his daughter because he was a very direct person and it was sort of 'tough love'. It's a very lengthy lecture (on Bayyinah TV) and I do understand the context (which was Umar RA not wanting his daughter to lose her dunya and akhirah if the Prophet (SAW) divorced her) - BUT my question remains: even if a person is 'direct', I can't imagine it's good to speak to your daughter like this?

And the last incident is something I read on my own, not from NAK's lecture

 

You know I've been thinking about this all day today- and had a few thoughts:

 

- Umar (radiyaAllahu anhu) was a Companion- an extremely blessed one with very high status- but not 'infallible' or somebody who didn't show harshness and this kind of directness (in other contexts aside from this). He did many times. So even if it is/sounds demoralising to be spoken to like that by your father, your father's approach may not be 'ideal'- just functional for that context.

 

- As parents, we sometimes just resort to the hardest 'end point' when trying to guide our children's behaviour without having the patience and softness to actually rationalise and talk them through things so they understand on their own (I myself am so guilty of this and trying to work on it subhanAllah). So for example, if S and Y are both doing something they shouldn't, I might stop S and tell her off for it. She'll then say "but Y is doing it with me" and- for whatever practical reason or just annoyance- I'll say "I'll deal with Y later/in a minute, can YOU just stop for now?" which probably sounds (and is) terribly unfair to her, but sometimes you just want to lessen your load of what you're dealing with and not able to show 'optimal' parenting behaviour at all times.

 

- Yeah, so in conclusion, Umar (radiyaAllahu anhu) was probably being harsh and unfair (though this is all I know of the context)- but in his mind, he probably rationalised it as being 'for a good reason' so for him, his comments were a "the ends justifies the means" type of thing. Not ideal, but the bare basics of parental guidance.

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You know I've been thinking about this all day today- and had a few thoughts:

I think someone (you) should listen to the same lecture and summarize their version of it. I'm pretty sure Veno's understanding is skewed.

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After the prophet you are supposed to follow the companions. So how do you know when they're being unfair and when it's fine to follow their example.

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I think someone (you) should listen to the same lecture and summarize their version of it. I'm pretty sure Veno's understanding is skewed.

I don't find Veno's account skewed at all, she's clearly presented what was said and the caveats NAK added to his commentary.

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