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Idk about you but personally I think what TJ do is so unneccessary. Da'wah should be through actions more than words.

 

As someone who is not 'Tablighi' but has been to Tabligh many years ago, I'd disagree with your conclusion lol.

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As someone who is not 'Tablighi' but has been to Tabligh many years ago, I'd disagree with your conclusion lol.

 

 

Me too! I didn't expect such a superficial analysis from my favourite sugar monster ​diabetes doctor!

 

I'm sure they focus on actions as well as statements lol

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As someone who is not 'Tablighi' but has been to Tabligh many years ago, I'd disagree with your conclusion lol.

 

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to make such a blanket statement - I was in a bit of a rush so I just got it down. I was just remembering (but not very well) something I heard in a talk by Sh Akram Nadwi. He said something along the lines of - one of our purposes in this world is to facilitate Islam for people but 'aggressive' da'wah like the TJ model is not the way to do it.

 

I'll admit I don't personally know any TJ people and I'm sure Sh Nadwi was criticising their methodology, nothing else.

Also, I would link the specific clip here if I could but I don't have access to the recording anymore.

 

 

 

 

Me too! I didn't expect such a superficial analysis from my favourite sugar monster ​diabetes doctor!

 

I'm sure they focus on actions as well as statements lol

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TJ is generally useless and when they are useful, the same thing can be achieved with more efficiency and less money.

e.g, when an Australian Jamat of 20 visits Chicago to invite masjid going people to come to jamat (so they can go on a trip to invite more for another jamat trip) and reads very basic teachings of Islam, I question their spending habits. Wouldn't that money be far more useful in 1000 other places. As for teaching Islam, couldn't the Jamat group in Chicago do exactly the same thing that the Australian jamat group came to do, only better because they know their city better? Further more, wouldn't brining in a visiting scholar from Egypt acheive far more in a month than an Australian jamat group visiting chicago for few weeks?

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hard to get scholars in North America and western Europe. The bulk of Islamic scholars are nationals of countries that aren't easily awarded visas. Of the minority of scholars living in North America and western Europe, a majority of them are incredibly busy with round the clock schedules dealing with everything from minor issues in their local communities to attending international Islamic forums. It doesn't help that their English skills are incredibly rarely at the same level as their Arabic is, and furthermore, any source of funding from those capable of funding credible interpretation etc. would be used as a criticism against them (they accepted Gulf/Ikhwani/Turkish/US Gov money! they can't be impartial scholars!!).

 

The only solution is to have our own native born Islamic scholars, and I am yet to see a case of one reaching the level of scholarship that their counterparts (and teachers) in the Islamic world have. Maybe in a couple of generations technology will make Islamic knowledge far more accessible (or it could make it far more corruptible, but that remains to be seen).

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scholars (or well educated imams) are not rare in USA and UK. Europe is another story.

US masjids regularly get Qari's for ramadan from Egypt (al azar), so visa issue might not really be an issue. Even if it were, local imams found in muslim hub cities like Chicago can be shipped to where needed. It would be much better than most TJ uncles. Don't get me started on TJ uncles.

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Scholars aren't the same as educated people. Scholars are people who have the breadth of knowledge to reference over 1400 years of tradition and scholarly opinion in order to write voluminous work on contemporary issues. In Islamic sciences there are probably under 1000 people with that level of scholarship worldwide regardless of how many graduates al Azhar pops out.

 

Sure you can have educated Imams but an imam with a PhD doesn't equal a scholar in the traditional sense. Technically speaking, in Islam the scholar takes up the role of the legislator. How many people reach the level of authority to legislate in other such extensive and well developed legal systems? The civil law equivalent would literally be a constitutional judge.

 

The average imam probably knows as much as the average TJ preacher. Lack of properly qualified Islamic scholars in Europe and the US is definitely an issue and has lead to a generally ignorant Muslim community. Well at least Muslims in Europe and America value their deen somewhat more.

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hard to get scholars in North America and western Europe. The bulk of Islamic scholars are nationals of countries that aren't easily awarded visas. Of the minority of scholars living in North America and western Europe, a majority of them are incredibly busy with round the clock schedules dealing with everything from minor issues in their local communities to attending international Islamic forums. It doesn't help that their English skills are incredibly rarely at the same level as their Arabic is, and furthermore, any source of funding from those capable of funding credible interpretation etc. would be used as a criticism against them (they accepted Gulf/Ikhwani/Turkish/US Gov money! they can't be impartial scholars!!).

 

The only solution is to have our own native born Islamic scholars, and I am yet to see a case of one reaching the level of scholarship that their counterparts (and teachers) in the Islamic world have. Maybe in a couple of generations technology will make Islamic knowledge far more accessible (or it could make it far more corruptible, but that remains to be seen).

I'm not sure we want to sponsor such a singularly focused scholarship. What is the purpose of a scholar, do you think?

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TJ is generally useless and when they are useful, the same thing can be achieved with more efficiency and less money.

e.g, when an Australian Jamat of 20 visits Chicago to invite masjid going people to come to jamat (so they can go on a trip to invite more for another jamat trip) and reads very basic teachings of Islam, I question their spending habits. Wouldn't that money be far more useful in 1000 other places. As for teaching Islam, couldn't the Jamat group in Chicago do exactly the same thing that the Australian jamat group came to do, only better because they know their city better? Further more, wouldn't brining in a visiting scholar from Egypt acheive far more in a month than an Australian jamat group visiting chicago for few weeks?

 

Have you ever had actual experiences with TJ? Because, based on this post, I question whether you understand their actual goals or 'ideology'.

 

I have some issues with TJ, based on my own subjective experiences, but I don't think anyone can logically argue against their effectiveness.

 

I'd argue that they've built one of the most effective/strategic and among the largest religious movements in the world today.

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Have you ever had actual experiences with TJ? Because, based on this post, I question whether you understand their actual goals or 'ideology'.

 

I have some issues with TJ, based on my own subjective experiences, but I don't think anyone can logically argue against their effectiveness.

 

I'd argue that they've built one of the most effective/strategic and among the largest religious movements in the world today.

yeah, I had enough experience with them. From indian subcontinent to USA.

Their stated goal is to bring non practicing muslims back to deen. their effective goal has been reduced to take people on jamath trips. you may have had some positive experience with them and that's good some of them have done some good. but vast majority of the time I have seen them in action, they do things in a way that could have been achieved with more efficiency. I also see TJ uncles not learning anything new for years upon years because they are stuck with two books, and waste time doing exactly the same thing every day, some times even propagating bad or even wrong fiqh.

they may be among the largest, yes, but other wise, meh.

 

even with yourself, do you see growing with them once you are over the initial how to make wudu phrase?

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yeah, I had enough experience with them. From indian subcontinent to USA.

Their stated goal is to bring non practicing muslims back to deen. their effective goal has been reduced to take people on jamath trips. you may have had some positive experience with them and that's good some of them have done some good. but vast majority of the time I have seen them in action, they do things in a way that could have been achieved with more efficiency. I also see TJ uncles not learning anything new for years upon years because they are stuck with two books, and waste time doing exactly the same thing every day, some times even propagating bad or even wrong fiqh.

they may be among the largest, yes, but other wise, meh.

 

even with yourself, do you see growing with them once you are over the initial how to make wudu phrase?

 

It's not just about bringing lapsed Muslims into the fold. It's as much about the travelers as for the host communities. They even use the word "Jihad" to refer to their efforts. What I've enjoyed about it is the concept of leaving things behind, clearing your mind, and going somewhere with nothing else in mind but worship and socializing with Muslims. Like a retreat. I personally don't care much for the daw'ah- though I know that's an important component.

It's also about creating a certain environment in mosques, where host communities welcome their guests, which is a sunnah and expands a sense of brotherhood. I think there's a general "global" feeling to TJ -- connecting to the larger ummah -- that would obviously not exist if people just stayed in their own city.

 

My main problem with them is just that they practice a very narrow sort of Islam and think it's universal and that everyone should follow it in the same way. It's obviously got Deobandi roots and all. I'm certainly more open-minded. I think you're coming to this with a very *elite* idea of education. It's definitely a folk/lay movement aimed at strengthening faith, not growing in scholarly knowledge. It's effective in that it's, 1) truly contributed to an Islamic revival in many places, and 2) keeps millions of people engaged in and constantly reaffirming/strengthening their religiosity.

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I'm not sure we want to sponsor such a singularly focused scholarship. What is the purpose of a scholar, do you think?

Sorry for the late reply Uncle. The purpose of the scholar is to preserve the Sunnah and derive rulings from it to solve problems facing Muslims.

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^ to do that effectively, a higher end scholar needs to be well versed in multiple fields and definitely in social affairs.

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^ to do that effectively, a higher end scholar needs to be well versed in multiple fields and definitely in social affairs.

 

Of course. That is why I don't consider a da'ee, an imam or a TV sheikh to be a scholar. The number of people who are qualified enough, as I said in my previous post, are very few. I believe however with time inshallah we will have proper and deeply knowledgeable homegrown scholars in the UK, in the US, etc.

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Of course. That is why I don't consider a da'ee, an imam or a TV sheikh to be a scholar. The number of people who are qualified enough, as I said in my previous post, are very few. I believe however with time inshallah we will have proper and deeply knowledgeable homegrown scholars in the UK, in the US, etc.

 

Are you one of those individuals who say that there are no 'Ulama in the UK?

 

'Such and such is majhool to our Mashaayikh and Kibaar' as they say...

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