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9 minutes ago, Mo- said:

 

 

Both of those things rely on something tangible though (besides the second is subjective FYI and only really used for triage). 

 

A like/dislike ratio is the result of people hitting buttons on their devices. Pain is the result of signals being sent to your brain, with the cause being able to be narrowed down and diagnosed. There is always physical counterpart to pain. 

1) The number of people scoring 10 is objective because it is a number. Yes it is a result of subjective experiences but so is the like/dislike ratio 

 

2) Wouldn't you agree feeling happy or sad can be routed to a physical counterpart too?

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7 minutes ago, superman said:

1) The number of people scoring 10 is objective because it is a number. Yes it is a result of subjective experiences but so is the like/dislike ratio 

 

2) Wouldn't you agree feeling happy or sad can be routed to a physical counterpart too?

 

1) Something be a number doesn’t make it objective. It can only be objective relative to that particular patient. Like/dislike ratio is only objective in the sense someone objectively hit the (dis)like button. 

 

2) Not to a single one, no. It also cannot be diagnosed. Say you’re feeling sad, you say to a psychiatrist “I’m feeling sad, why is that?” they will say “you’re depressed”. If you ask how do they know you’re depressed, they’ll say it’s  because you said you’re feeling sad. This sort of circular logic doesn’t make sense in the diagnosis of a disease. Maybe you’re sad because you lost your job, being sad in of itself is not an illness.

 

Compare this to oncology. With lung cancer for example, it can be diagnosed through a lung biopsy, through blood test for circulating tumour DNA, through scans such as the PET scan, etc. 

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2 minutes ago, Mo- said:

 

1) Something be a number doesn’t make it objective. It can only be objective relative to that particular patient. Like/dislike ratio is only objective in the sense someone objectively hit the (dis)like button. 

 

2) Not to a single one, no. It also cannot be diagnosed. Say you’re feeling sad, you say to a psychiatrist “I’m feeling sad, why is that?” they will say “you’re depressed”. If you ask how do they know you’re depressed, they’ll say it’s  because you said you’re feeling sad. This sort of circular logic doesn’t make sense in the diagnosis of a disease. Maybe you’re sad because you lost your job, being sad in of itself is not an illness.

 

Compare this to oncology. With lung cancer for example, it can be diagnosed through a lung biopsy, through blood test for circulating tumour DNA, through scans such as the PET scan, etc. 

1) I think you misunderstood what I'm saying. Say I have 100 participants. I ask them to score thier pain from 1 - 10. 50 people scored thier pain as 10. In this scenario it is a fact that 50 people scored their pain as 10. 

 

2) Ok we disagree on this one.

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Subjective experiences can be real of course, but the problem with psychiatry is in the diagnosis of the cause of illnesses and the methods of treating them. Sometimes even normal things get labelled as an illness or disorder in the brain (see this lecture by psychiatrist Allen J. Frances), and that allows the psychiatrist to be able to conveniently justify the need for medications, and unfortunately the medications too are oftentimes not only ineffective but lead to quite severe damage to the patients taking them. Talk therapy is much more helpful, IMO.

 

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14 hours ago, Mo- said:

Most psychiatry is quackery.

 

 

Maybe you're conflating counseling with psychiatry. And even if you are not, substituting one quack with another layman not helping. Religious figures magically don't become experts in things they don't know.

 

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